spyblaster
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a new kind of Shams
In my opinion, Shams is a part of oud which really wastes the workmanship. Luthiers spend a lot of their precious time to design and make the Shams
but it doesn't draw attention and show it's beauty. because it's usually made of dark woods and placed on a dark background. so it's not seen very
well.
here is a simple idea. the luthier has made the Shams in two colors. actually it's all made of dark plexi but the center is covered by a very thin
layer of gold. i think it draw's attention well and looks nice.
is there someone else using this method? i'd like to see more colorful Shams if available. thanx
[file]25205[/file]
The Oud is my life, n my life is the Oud
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Luttgutt
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Who is the maker of this beauty??
Thanks for posting :-)
The wood might be dead, but the oud is alive.
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Mehran
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If im not mistaken it looks like the work of Hamid Ghorbanzade, from Iran.
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jdowning
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Very attractive - and interesting observations spyblaster.
The guilding (gold 'plating') of carved rosettes can also be found in some of the early surviving European instruments such as citterns and
harpsichords (not sure if there are examples among the lutes)
Some of the famous Flemish harpsichord makers went further with cast lead soundboard rosettes that were guilded - no doubt in an effort to save time
and cut costs yet without sacrificing appearance. I, therefore, wonder if cast rosettes might have an application for the oud as well - not using lead
but a lighter weight (and less toxic) metal such as aluminium or even cast epoxy resin? Casting of aluminium and epoxy resins can easily be done in
the home workshop. The finished product could then be guilded (metal or resin), painted or coloured by anodising (aluminium) or by adding coloured
pigments to the resin.
This would mean that a luthier would just have to carve a rosette once (to use as the pattern) and could then run off many castings from the mold -
for his own use or perhaps for sale to others.
I have experience in casting small components in metal and resin - but not rosettes - so will post a separate topic on the forum - when I can find
time - on how to make low cost cast rosettes using readily available materials. Should be of general interest (hopefully!)
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spyblaster
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close enough  it's made by Kave Ghorbanzade. Hamid's bro.
Quote: Originally posted by jdowning  | Very attractive - and interesting observations spyblaster.
The guilding (gold 'plating') of carved rosettes can also be found in some of the early surviving European instruments such as citterns and
harpsichords (not sure if there are examples among the lutes)
Some of the famous Flemish harpsichord makers went further with cast lead soundboard rosettes that were guilded - no doubt in an effort to save time
and cut costs yet without sacrificing appearance. I, therefore, wonder if cast rosettes might have an application for the oud as well - not using lead
but a lighter weight (and less toxic) metal such as aluminium or even cast epoxy resin? Casting of aluminium and epoxy resins can easily be done in
the home workshop. The finished product could then be guilded (metal or resin), painted or coloured by anodising (aluminium) or by adding coloured
pigments to the resin.
This would mean that a luthier would just have to carve a rosette once (to use as the pattern) and could then run off many castings from the mold -
for his own use or perhaps for sale to others.
I have experience in casting small components in metal and resin - but not rosettes - so will post a separate topic on the forum - when I can find
time - on how to make low cost cast rosettes using readily available materials. Should be of general interest (hopefully!) |
Thanks for your useful info. as a matter of fact, now a days making these rosettes is pretty easy. you don't even need to make the it once. the one i
attached in the first post is cut all by laser machine. in this way you just need to design it in a software like Corel draw, then you need to have
someone cut it out of your desired material. as i know, that's what ustad Faruk and sukar do. it's also very cheap and quick and can be applied on
different materials(plexi, thin wood etc).
im interested in other ways to design colorful Shams (i mean visually). any idea? maybe we can start a thread here and design together...
The Oud is my life, n my life is the Oud
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Alfaraby
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| Quote: Originally posted by jdowning | | I wonder if cast rosettes might have an application for the oud as well - not using lead but a lighter weight (and less toxic) metal such as
aluminium or even cast epoxy resin? |
Metal rosettes have never been seen on ouds. Aluminium wasn't in use untill the end of the 19th C, yet was still as expensive as silver. It became
available & affordable as it is nowadays, some 5-6 decades later. Other metals were disqualified mainly due to their high weight.
There's nothing that wasn't experimented by uncle Abdo, the great master of all times. A Damascene reliable source told me that the greatest rosette
ever made by the Nahats was actually cast, not cut nor carved. It was made of a mixture of grinded bone with some unknown glues.
He meant the famous rosette on late Hamza's (RIP) mega-oud as been reported here:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=1092#pid723...
Later on, after plastic became a substitute for many other materials in almost every industry, plastic cast rosettes became more familiar scene in the
oud industry.
Though a nice rosette indeed, I still prefer a lighter rosette on a dark background of the oud's "innards". It's the contrast that underlies the whole
idea, otherwise what is a rosette needed for in the first palce 
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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ALAMI
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I've seen one metal (copper) rosette, it is the oud of my friend Ziad Eh Ahmadie, made by Nazih Ghadban long time ago, a very nice sounding oud:
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jdowning
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As Jamil suggests a rosette is purely decorative so can be dispensed with as it has no acoustic benefit (as can any of the decorative inlays found on
ouds and lutes). These details are just an opportunity for the craftsman to demonstrate his skills.
While a lazer cut rosette is a valid decoration and keeps the cost of an oud down it requires no craft skills to produce. Also it is a two dimensional
pattern compared to a casting which must be three dimensional with no sharp corners (in order to be released from the mold). This further enhances the
decorative possibilities of a cast rosette (lute rosettes were always carved on the outside face to give this 3D effect).
Historically we do not know if the early ouds (pre 19th C) were fitted with rosettes although they probably were - perhaps they were originally 'cut
in' like those of a lute (or oud arbi).
I have seen modern lutes with guilded rosettes but none of the surviving lutes with this feature - although it is quite possible that some were.
Checking further with the early harpsichord rosettes some were also made from guilded papier maché (ground up paper mixed with glue and pressed into
a mold) - similar to the Nahat bone dust mixed with glue. In the preplastic days of the 19th C papier maché moldings were popular for making both
mundane and artistic objects.
One other thought is that an apparently solid metallic rosette need not be heavy if a metal - such as copper - is deposited (by electroplating) over a
lightweight carved or cast foundation. Pretty well any object can be treated this way if made conductive to an electric current by coating with
graphite powder.
Historical considerations aside I think that both lazer cut plastic rosettes as well as cast or molded rosettes made from whatever material - guilded
or not - can be a valid decorative feature for an oud if tastefully executed. The rosette on the Ghadban oud is an example of what can be achieved.
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spyblaster
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i found more samples. it looks good, doesn't it?
p.s. the luthier is bulent eryalman from turkey. does anyone know him?
The Oud is my life, n my life is the Oud
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Matthias
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I think this light material can be seen good. The comple instrument you find here:
http://www.lutes-strings.de/english/Aoud_vorraetig.php
Regards Matthias
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spyblaster
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another sample. made by ustad Nazih Ghadban.
The Oud is my life, n my life is the Oud
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MatthewW
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Those shams are very lovely spyblaster. perhaps we can find more colorful shams when we look around, I've seen many 'ordinary' shams, and also many
beautiful ones. my shams made by Nazih is very pretty to me (second photo)
Kamil Mowais has made some lovely shams ( 1st photo)
The shams in the 3rd photo is anything but dark or not seen very well! it was made by Maurice Farouk Shehata.
[file]25270[/file]
[file]25272[/file]
[file]25274[/file]
beauty is often in the eye of the beholder, n'est pas mon ami?
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fernandraynaud
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I rather like that subtle two-tone light/dark shams so common on Turkish ouds. It seems like a shadow at first glance.
And how about something like this? Maybe an idea?
http://www.claviantica.com/mozart_harpsichord_files/Mozart_harps_ro...
http://www.claviantica.com/mozart_harpsichord_files/Mozart_harps_ro...
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Mehran
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Heres one that caught my eye a while back.
Hassan Hamza of Syria.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/files.php?pid=74593&aid=15...
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teslim
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spyblaster, Bulent Eryalman makes extremely fine crafted instruments with an attention to detail and refinement of sound that is truely
extraordinary... his shams are works of art... he is in izmir...
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MatthewW
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lute makers have a long history of using nicely crafted rosettes/shams. check this site out for example:
http://www.lutehole.com/lutehole.php
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