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aasuits
Oud Addict
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restoring Armenian oud
I just got this , and felt that in spite of its devastation it would be a worthwhile fix and a very intriguing study piece.The back's basically fine
,top was split,neck/pegbox broken off. the neck's a fairly clean break and should go together OK.
The back is sheesham, Indian rosewood, neck core is spruce or fine grained pine with sheesham strips. The top is the widest grained soft pine I've
ever seen for an oud top! I've seen so many ouds, obviously well made with great tone, made out of what Western luthiers would consider awful wood-
wavy grain, wide lines, and up to 6 pieces joined. so I am interested to see what this soundboard does.I have heard oudmakers often prefer much softer
wood than that used for guitars/lutes, where stiff-as-glass is the preferred stuff.
As usual there were horrible amateur repairs- the big shamsa was glued in with some kinda rock hard synthetic and a piece of plywood on the back to
reinforce it. I managed to excavate the shamsa without any further damage to the top. The shamsas were old ivory grain celluloid and very brittle so
I had to wreck them getting them loose. I did take pix and will document everything I'm doing as well as preserve all the parts and pieces.
There is an original label and a photograph glued inside. A later repair label, done in Ashrafiya Beirut in 1936, notes the face replaced. The
maker's name is "Garsis(?) Awadikian" and I've been unable to find any bio on him. The 2nd repair label was glued over the bottom of the original so
if there was any data there, it's not obtainable now! hellfire.how helpful.
Many thanks to Rahim Alhaj and his marvelous wife Nada Kherbik for help in deciphering the Arabic.
The inside top has an inscription in Greek cursive (?) and Roman script. help, anybody?
The bracing is unlike any I've ever seen. All about the same height and cut at a single angle on one side to a knife edge at top. All are cut on the
same downwards angle except the lowest, under the bridge, is opposite- see pix. I had a quick discussion with Simon Shaheen about the orientation of
grain in the braces- these are parallel to the face- and he said it makes absolutely no difference, either perpendicular grain or parallel will work
fine. I'm not going to dispute a very experienced expert like him, so I'll consider this a priceless bit of lutherie info that otherwise would have
taken years to determine.Thanks Simon!!!
Happily the neck/bowl joint seems solid, the old dowel through block. The block lost a lot of meat in whatever damaged the oud. I'm using Japanese
mulberry paper to re-do the brittle and crumbling newsprint type(?)lining strips and did a crescent shaped piece just beneath the block. This is
the best paper I've found for any sort of linings, it doesn't buckle and curl like the vegetable parchment I'd used previously.
I'm using Lee Valley liquid fish glue for all the work. Dan Hachez, a master luthier, turned me on to this years ago and it is truly a godsend glue.
Franklin liquid hide glue is considered taboo for luthereie but the Lee Valley stuff is superb.
All in all this promises to be a very instructive fixit. The oud was played to death, no doubt lovingly, there are gouges in the face where the
reesha went entirely through it. As usual the pickguard is virtually useless as it was too low to effectively protect the face. why is this such a
common idiosyncracy of ouds I'll never figure out.
I'm going to redo the braces carefully matching what's there, the glue's so old it's totally brittle. My guess is this oud was rescued from an attic
or basement. The face had numerous splits which I've cleated and may shim. Ordinarily such a mess would suggest replacing the whole face but I want
to see how much I can bring this sweetie back from the dead... it is a 77 year old piece of tonewood after all.
I'll replace the fingerboard after I glue the neck back together. The core section that joins to the pegbox is very thin so it is better to have that
established and then remove the fingerboard to replace it.
I'm bushing all the pegholes, the originals were way enlarged. The pegs were stained maple violin pegs of European make. I'll redo all the pegs with
smaller shafts- better tuning. I'm a confirmed rosewood peg guy, it's all I use if possible.
I'll post pix in the next upload.
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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For information there is a discussion about cross grain direction in braces here.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=12835#pid88...
Note that while cross grain direction makes no difference acoustically, longitudinal grain run out does (as well as being structurally weaker).
Also a discussion about multiple piece sound boards can be found here
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=12601#pid88...
Good luck with your restoration work - particularly if you are planning to use liquid fish glue rather than traditional hot hide glue for structural
repairs.
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aasuits
Oud Addict
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pix and label, old Armenian oud
ok here goes, a lot of pix of the patient as it arrived in ER.any help with the Greek label, much appreciated.
I wouldn't be hidebound about use of hot hide glue. The Lee Valley fish glue behaves exactly as hot glue does, it's just way easier to use. I've used
it for 10 years with no issues at all, and my luthier pal who turned me on to it sells his string basses in 5 figures. He wouldn't use the fish glue
if he didn't stand behind it.
[file]25758[/file] [file]25760[/file] [file]25762[/file] [file]25764[/file]
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aasuits
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more pix, Armenian oud
pix.
[file]25772[/file] [file]25770[/file] [file]25774[/file] [file]25776[/file]
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aasuits
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more pix again
and more pix.
[file]25778[/file] [file]25780[/file] [file]25782[/file] [file]25784[/file]
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spyrosc
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Name
I think the name is Qarbis (or Garbis) not Garsis
Spyros C.
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David Parfitt
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I'm no expert, but the top text looks like it might be written in Armenian script?
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spyrosc
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The writing is not Greek, it's Armenian with some Arabic.
The oud is dated 1926 (or depending on the handwriting 1936).
Spyros C.
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David Parfitt
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Here is another Garbis Awadikian oud:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10627
Jonathan Varjabedian does not seem to have this maker listed on his page though:
http://varjouds.com/armenian_oud.htm
David
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aasuits
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thanks David for those references! foolishly I didn't think there'd be other notes on this maker here ( and if not then where).The other labeled one
referenced is a very different shape-mine is a fatter, Syrian/Turkish shape if I may describe it thus. And yes, there's obviously Armenian,Arabic and
Roman inscriptions, but the more "cursive" at the bottom repair label and inside the soundboard looks Greek- take another look and let me know what
you think.thanks for your take though Spyros.
The repair label is pretty certainly 1936 in Arabic numbers. I'd love to know if there may have been a date on the original, upper label. Very
dismaying that the repair label noting the replaced face is glued right over the bottom 1/3 of the original- dammit.
I have not been brave enough to build an oud with the cut-through soundboard edge .the 3 ouds I've made all have half-binding where the edge strip is
inlaid into 1/2 the thickness of the face. so since I'm redoing the original soundboard I'm hoping this will tell me a good bit about how that
counter-intuitive oud construction detail works. It just seems crazy to make that much of the top weaker all along the edge joint, but many
generations of oud makers have done it so. onwards-
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aasuits
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the bridge is very small- the ledge at the top is as narrow as any I've seen. it's bored for 5 double courses but there are 11 pegs so I'm going to
plug/rebore holes for 6 courses.,with a single bamm-bass.
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David Parfitt
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Quote: Originally posted by aasuits  | | And yes, there's obviously Armenian,Arabic and Roman inscriptions, but the more "cursive" at the bottom repair label and inside the soundboard looks
Greek- take another look and let me know what you think. |
Do you mean the part that I've circled in red below? That looks like Armenian to me...
All the best
David
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hartun
Oud Junkie
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The printed writing directly below the photo reads in Armenian,
"Garbis Avedikian, Beirut"
the cursive writing on the back side of the face reads
"Partamios Apart...."
which you can also read in roman letters "partamios". the end of the second word is written in jumbled Armenian letters which is a style of writing
used among craftsmen, i can't make it out. It could be Partamios Apartian although thats not a last name i've ever heard of. Im guessing Partamios did
some work on an original Avedikian (Awadikian) oud. By the way mentioned in David's link was that Awad in a last name means oud maker. This is a
coincidence or perhaps a pun, because Awadikian is just the arabic rendering of Avedikian which is a common last name meaning good news or gospel.
the cursive writing at the bottom of the original label (which david circled in red) also reads
"Partamios Apa..."
Partam is a very rare Armenian name. I've never heard of Partamios so I don't know if Partamios is a form used in Armenian or perhaps this was an
Armenian from Greece. I can find out.
My credentials: I am Armenian American and can read write and sort of speak the language
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jdowning
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The sound board now has a 'cut through' edge but did it originally have this feature rather than a half binding? You say that 'many generations of oud
makers' have employed cut through edge binding - but what is the evidence for that rather than being a relatively modern practice? Of course, you now
have no choice but to go with a full depth binding.
My old (early 20th C?) Egyptian oud has half binding but little now remains - just a few fragments - due to repeated past repairs that have thinned
and damaged the edge of the sound board. My only alternative, if I am to restore the instrument with its original sound board, is to go with a full
depth binding. I suspect that this situation may apply to those old surviving ouds that now have full depth binding.
As the repair label is of lesser importance than the original you might consider removing it by moistening the paper and applying some local heat to
soften the (hide?) glue. With a bit of care it might be possible to remove the label relatively intact with little damage to the original.
A 'non invasive' possibility might be to examine the label under ultra violet light to help reveal what is on the original label. I have not tried
this method but I believe that UV light is used to detect banknote forgeries so the necessary equipment may be available at your local bank or
jewellers (if they will allow you access)?
You currently have four threads 'on the go' for this one topic. It would be easier to follow if all three additional threads (the images) were brought
together under this one thread. Not sure how that might now be done but perhaps Greg could assist?
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hartun
Oud Junkie
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well, should have searched google first! apparently apartian is a real armenian last name and not only that but there was a guitar maker by that name
(in greece it seems?):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-fwXqDnpT0
partamios wasnt found in the master armenian name dictionary, but there is the name partam and perhaps partamios is a greek form of this. and also
partamios could be slang for partoughimeos (bartholomew).
so, it seems this Garbis Avedikian (Awadikian) oud made in Beirut was restored or worked on at some point by another armenian luthier named Partamios
Apartian, who also does not show up in the varjabedian oud website.
harry
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jdowning
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At the other end of the light spectrum there is Infra Red. This may be a more promising way to try to read what is under the repair label. Using a
zero lux (no light) night vision camera (such as a Sony DCR DVD200) fitted with an Infra Red pass filter it is possible to read print through a brown
paper envelope.
Don't have a night vision camera? There are a number of tutorials on YouTube on how to easily convert cheap (or expensive) digital cameras to night
vision. As the IR technique may (or may not) be useful for others as an aid in reading obscure text on instrument labels, I plan to run some trials to
see what might be achieved and will report back as a future separate topic.
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reminore
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for what its worth, an armenian friend translates the inscription as bardamios apartan - you can make this out in the latin script below...
coincidentally, there was a luthier in greece making guitars in the 40's -50's named 'apartian'...
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Greg
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Threads Merged
2-9-2013 at 03:59 AM |
Greg
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Threads Merged
2-9-2013 at 04:00 AM |
Greg
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Threads Merged
2-9-2013 at 04:01 AM |
Greg
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Thread Moved
2-9-2013 at 04:02 AM |
Greg
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Thread Pruned
2-9-2013 at 04:05 AM |
aasuits
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I've re-bushed all the pegholes with hard maple. They are bored out with the same taper of the 1:30 peg reamer that I'll use for the pegs. I'm
re-tiling the edges of the pegbox that had missing bit. After I got it together and trimmed back the maple plugs I used a litle shellav, just the
darkest button shellac I usually use, dissolved in Everclear. It matched very well on the tiles and was dark enough on the maple to look nice. I
wasn't going for making the bushings invisible.I used viola pegs and got the shafts at a point where they are narrow but solid enough to be plenty
strong. The original pegs ( or at least what was on this oud for quite some time) you can see were actually squashed/compressed from the pegbox- not
good!
I cut half-round splints and glued them in where the reesha had dug gouges in the very soft soundboard. There were a total of 9 by the time I filled
all of them, with some scraps of the softest widest grain pine I had in the scrap pile . These will be under the mizraplik I'll glue on, I have some
nice burly walnut veneer for this. It will extend much higher under the large shamsa where the reesha action was.
[file]25790[/file] [file]25792[/file] [file]25794[/file] [file]25796[/file] [file]25798[/file] [file]25800[/file] [file]25802[/file]
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aasuits
Oud Addict
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here's the stained maple pegs with compressed shafts.I've made more pegs and fitted even more than I want to recall and rosewood is hands down the
best stuff I've used. It has the right combination of hardness , takes a fine finish, and the resins seem to have the just-right effect of stickiness
and slipperiness. Ebony has a lot of natural silica in it and will abrade pegholes more than many other choices. This may very well be an inside job
perpetrated by violin makers who are thereby assured of plenty of repeat fixes. don't scoff, violin makers have suggested this to me.
I have used African blackwood for pegs which is hard as iron, a beeyotch to turn, but absolutely beautiful and excellent for pegs . It is a rosewood
specie,dalbergia melanoxylon and is maybe the finest of all the rosewoods for pegs. I just don't use it so much because it is probably 3
times harder to work with than other rosewoods, but the super dark brown and black with dark gold highlights is luscious. it is superb for
fingerboards also- and quite expensive- so I reserve it for just some special applications.
[file]25808[/file]
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aasuits
Oud Addict
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I had a large shamsa that miraculously fits! I'm making 2 small ones. I use a Finnish birch plywood that I sand down on both faces to get it to an
optimal thickness- not too weak and not too heavy.I had a Delta scroll saw that I found was way too much machine for shamsas, sold it immediately.
Just a jeweler's saw and my eyes are much easier, faster and more controllable for me.
and a bonus, this is a magnificent South Indian Saraswati Veena I'm working on simultaneously- you don't want to do the fret job on one of these.
[file]25826[/file] [file]25828[/file] [file]25830[/file] [file]25832[/file] [file]25834[/file]
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ALAMI
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From the Arabic script, it appears that the name of the guy who repaired the face is:
First Name: Tanyos (common Lebanese name) or Tatyos (armenian Name)
Last Name: Apartan or Apartian.
The year is most probably 1936 and not 26
the Garabis Awadikian Label is similar to the Awadikian (Avadikian) I have. It is very common among Lebanese Armenians to change the "V" that does not
exist in Arabic Alphabet to "W", the very common Armenian name Vartan is pronounced in Lebanon Wartan.
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aasuits
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shamseen and some braces in
glued in the shamsas. I used a piece of acrylic sheet under the weights to distribute the pressure better over the slightly uneven table.
I glued in a few braces to help flatten out the soundboard too. After the braces and shamseen were in the table was feeling much more solid and
is giving a nice ring when tapped.
[file]25876[/file]
[file]25906[/file]
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aasuits
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shamseen
shamseen under weights
[file]25908[/file]
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Nondas
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I was the other bidder, but I wasn't fast enough, glad to see that it is being restored, hope you enjoy it. What did happen to the old mpastas
(pickguard)?
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aasuits
Oud Addict
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I'm preserving all the pieces. The original pickguard is some kind of plastic imitation tortoise, and it was very crudely made and useless to protect
the table- all the reesha strokes were just above the top edge!
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