Masel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 367
Registered: 6-18-2006
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live - mic or pickup? feedback, eq etc...
hey, so i have a whole bunch of questions. i've done some searching but haven't found what i'm looking for.
first of all, my band is starting to play live more and more, and i need to figure out how to amplify the oud, it's problematic. our band has vocals,
azeri tar, kamanche, tombak and oud.
we had a show yesterday in a small bar/restaurant. the space was small and crowded and at the bar on the other side there were some people making
noise. all the other instruments worked well with dynamic mics (sm57 and 58). for the oud it was complicated because the lower fequencies kept
feedbacking so the volume couldn't go high enough in the mix.
there are many things i'm not sure how to approach. i would rather avoid using a pickup as it never sounds as natural as a mic, what should i do?
maybe a combination of pick up (what kind?) and mic would work better? even when we played in a quiet venue the sound-guy used condensers the oud
still didn't "come out" as much as the other instruments.
most soundguys here don't know too much about amplifying these instruments so i need to know more myself. for example what is the typical frequency
curve of an oud? i assume it is mainly in the low-high mids, and the feedbacking frequency somewhere between 100-400 hz (depending on room etc)? i've
never seen this type of discussion i think it's overdue.. when eq-ing an oud are there any general rules to follow?
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Masel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 367
Registered: 6-18-2006
Member Is Offline
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i want to add that when we rehears we play acoustic and we sound very tight and together but on stage everything changes and i feel like many small
details are lost. this is also something i need to learn to deal with.
for evidence:
acoustic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx4i_icrJHU
condensers nice stage etc but flat boring sound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlE_yBW0_uA
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stos
Oud Junkie
Posts: 263
Registered: 9-29-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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hello masel!
something you can try even if its not a miracle is that you have to point the mic not in direction of the rosette (typical bass feedback) but point
the end of the fingerboard.
good luck!
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fayyazi
Oud Maniac
Posts: 57
Registered: 3-27-2011
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can i jump into this conversation and ask what is your preferred microphone for oud guys? i'm tired of "multi purpose" dynamics! thanks
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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I stick an AKG 411 condenser inside the oud; it attaches to the soundboard with a kind of putty. It sounds very good, you can listen to it here:
video w/AKG mic
You need phantom power for any condenser to work.
In lower-volume situations, I like the MXL991 for an inexpensive directional condenser (it's about $50). The MXL603 is supposed to be the same mic,
as far as I understand. Good sound, and good off-axis rejection so it doesn't pick up everything else as well.
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Masel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 367
Registered: 6-18-2006
Member Is Offline
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hey thank you guys. i've gotten some good advice: use a pickup for the monitor and a condenser for the PA, if it needs a little more volume you can
mix in more of the pickup. i have two MXL603 so i will try them, still need to find a better pickup than my old barcus barry, my teacher told me DPA
make good small pickup sized condensers, but they are not cheap.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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The AKG condenser is pretty inexpensive around $130:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=204571&a...
It's about the size of a nickel.
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fayyazi
Oud Maniac
Posts: 57
Registered: 3-27-2011
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thanks guys... i played with a Rode NT5 in a concert (something the sound engineer had with him) it sounded very good
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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How did you place the NT5?
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fayyazi
Oud Maniac
Posts: 57
Registered: 3-27-2011
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it was in front of the sound hole but facing where the risha hits the strings
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Masel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 367
Registered: 6-18-2006
Member Is Offline
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hey the video of the akg sounds great, i will check it out
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Masel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 367
Registered: 6-18-2006
Member Is Offline
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brian would you say the akg can pick up enough bass without feedbacking? i've read online and only found mandolin and violin players using it, i would
like to know how it would handle an oud.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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Yes, I am more than happy with the bass response of the pickup. I'm not playing in a rock band, but I haven't had any problems with feedback.
I did do one unusually loud gig with a big ensemble and there was the potential for feedback but a little EQ by the soundman fixed it.
I haven't found any non-piezo pickup that was any more feedback-immune than this mic.
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