oudman71
Oud Lover
Posts: 20
Registered: 3-24-2007
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Live Sound...
Hello Mike's Oud Forum!!
I confess I have been a long time lurker here... so much that I forgot I actually registered here some time ago. 
I am a performing Oud player/Oudist/'Awad in the Midwest United States, also a composer, recording artist, etc. My music career is currently causing
me to ramp up my Oud Performing in a big way and I'm curious, for those of you who perform regularly, how do you amplify your Ouds? Specifically, do
you prefer a Mic, or using pickups? I have done it both ways, and could share my experiences, but I'd like to know what your experiences are.
Please forgive me if this is a dead-horse topic
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Mso872
Oud Lover
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Location: Monterey, CA
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I love the sound of a mic'd oud. But for convenience's sake, a built in pickup is so convenient. I think a mic is good in a concert setting, but for a
festival/dance/other medium-small gig, I think a pickup is ideal. You lose a lot of volume when you use a mic vs a pickup, so you have to have a
pretty powerful sound system
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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I've been using an AKG C411 condenser mic, it mounts with a kind of sticky putty and is very small. It sounds good but requires phantom power. I put
it inside and the small wire comes out the soundhole. I can put it in and take it out, since I have no rosette, you could mount it externally but it
doesn't sound as good. It could be permanently mounted but it would be a bit tricky.
Good sound and resistant to feedback.
For a regular mic, it depends on the situation, I like pencil condensers or sometimes an SM57 if it's not too noisy. MXL has a bunch of inexpensive
pencil condensers with good off-axis rejection that sound decent on the oud (991, 603, and 604 are the main ones I think) for $100 or less. They work
for most situations but may feed back if it's loud or you're too close to the monitor.
I haven't been too crazy about pickups but some folks have had good results. B-Band's AST film pickup works well but requires permanent installation
with an endpin jack.
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oudman71
Oud Lover
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Yeah. Sounds like you guys have had some similar experiences.
I've done a lot of private and cafe type gigs, where it's convenient to use an amp. However I've found that feedback is a real problem if the Oud is
anywhere near the speaker, and this is the same whether I go with a mic or a pickup.
Recently I've bought a wireless system that enables me to put the amp very far away from the Oud. If I keep the gain structure right, I can really
fill the room with no feedback. It seems to be working well.
I'm using a Marshall Acoustic Guitar amp, which has an amazingly good sound for the price, much better than the Roland amp which is almost twice as
expensive. The Marshall also makes a nice monitor on stage in big concert situations as well.
Thanks for the feedback 
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DoggerelPundit
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 7-28-2010
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Try placing the amp on its back (on a stool or chair) so the speakers point at the ceiling. When I use this method in restaurants, I sit directly in
front of the amp with the mike about 5 inches or less from the main rose, and angled slightly downward. Keeping the gain low to reduce the mike
sensitivity cloud, and using the volume control alone, allows the sound to really fill the room with no feedback. Caveat: The amp I use has built-in
EQ and the sound is tuned as close to pure acoustic as possible, with special attention to removing most of the hard "metallics" in the treble and
mid-ranges.
-Stephen
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rudeog
Oud Addict
Posts: 33
Registered: 1-10-2010
Location: Raleigh, USA
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Quote: Originally posted by oudman71  | | Hello Mike's Specifically, do you prefer a Mic, or using pickups? I have done it both ways, and could share my experiences, but I'd like to know what
your experiences are. |
I've tried many pickups (and mics). I will never use a mic in a live situation as I play with a band, and it's too difficult with feedback and getting
volumes correct.
For pickups, I've finally figured out that an under saddle pickup is the best (not much feedback, loud, easy to get under control). Unfortunately this
means the oud has to have a saddle which most don't (and can't be fitted unless it has a floating bridge). The oud I use for playing live is a
Saadettin Sandi oud that also has gear tuners. I'm extremely happy with this oud. Granted it doesn't sound very oud like, but in a band situation with
drummers and violinists playing, it doesn't really matter. Another one that has a saddle is the Godin MultiOud. I tried that as well, didn't like it
and returned it. There are other Turkish ones you can get on ebay now that have the saddle. I've tried one other and didn't like the build quality or
the sound. I have another Sukar electric oud (the so called toilet seat). I replaced the pickup with a saddle and an under saddle pickup and I'm very
happy with that (I use that one through distortion and other guitar FX when I'm in one of those moods).
You might have luck with piezo round pickups (like eg the K&K variety) but it becomes very dependent on the oud, and also where on the oud they
are placed. The common thinking is that nearer the bridge is better (or under it if you can get there), but I've come to see that this is not always
the case, as it can depend on how the oud vibrates. And I think each one vibrates a bit differently.
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oudman71
Oud Lover
Posts: 20
Registered: 3-24-2007
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Thanks for all your replies. Very helpful. Nice to see my experiences have been mirrored somewhat by the other players out there.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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For me, external mics work well only for recording or for solo venues where you can really work on the EQ, but in a larger room and ensemble
situations it's too hard to control, the instrument is at the mercy of the environment, and at that point who cares how faithful it is, anyway.
I find the K&K dual disk Twin Spot on tape strips near the bridge (as they recommend) can sound surprisingly good in a mid-volume situation given some attention to the EQ. I put a Twin Spot on a Sukar for a gig
and have left it on ever since because it sounded so good and "acoustic".
Any louder and only under-saddle pickups work for me. It's what I have on my Shehata, and even then, as on any full-bowled oud, it demands a lot of EQ
to notch out the feedback nodes.
Those under-saddle piezos are sensitive to the baseline pressure from the strings/saddle, and to my surprise sound completely different depending on
the saddle height (and resulting pressure). My Shehata sounds very nice with a low saddle, but a higher saddle develops more force on the piezo strip
and that completely ruins the timbre. So if your under-saddle piezo sounds terrible, it might be worth exploring adding some shims under the ends of
the saddle, or along the length parallel to the piezo, to relieve some of the pressure, as it can sound entirely different.
If I were playing gigs regularly I'd buy a solid body oud of some sort, or a Multi-Oud, only practical solution, the bowl is just in the way and
howling, it's neither necessary nor relevant for electric oud mode, as you can use the electronics to build whatever sound you want. For instance Mehdi Haddab has a great electric oud sound look at 1:38, or here.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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No offense, but I think the notion that performing with a mic is impossible is a bit ridiculous. Most professional performers use mics exclusively,
and as long as you have a decent sound system and sound engineer there is no problem. Rabih Abou Khalil, Anouar Brahem, Marcel Khalife, Simon Shaheen
all perform exclusively with microphones and have played thousands of concerts.
If you want to play oud in a rock band or similar, maybe you need a pickup. If there's no sound system and you are trying to use a guitar amp then a
pickup is also probably the best choice.
I've tried pickups and mics, and at least with the AKG condenser I have I can get louder with no feedback and 1000% better sound than any pickup, plus
I don't need to modify the oud. This in concert halls, night clubs, etc., with loud percussion and horns. It's doable and worth it to get the real
sound of the oud.
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