Shlomobaruch
Oud Admirer
Posts: 4
Registered: 6-29-2013
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Hello and restoration question(s)
Hello all. This is my first post in this forum, though I've looked through here on and off for years - reading Dr. Oud's advice and following the
construction of Jameel's fabulous ouds. I've played a turkish oud rather casually for the past ten years (normally play double bass and guitar), and
just this afternoon purchased an Arabic oud at a pawn shop for $70. It definitely needs some work, but I figured for $70 I could get my feet wet in
restoring it, and in taking on the larger Arabic instrument. I do have some woodworking and instrument experience - I've reglued the seams in my
double bass, built a cajon, a number of shelves, boxes, and recently made a really nice pedalboard out of poplar with an oak binding.
I can't say much about the instrument. There's no label inside the bowl, though it definitely has seen some years/interesting conditions, because the
parchment strips have fused/decomposed into the bowl - it looks like a uniform surface with light and dark stripes. It has an interesting beard
pattern that I haven't seen before. There's also an weird anomaly in that it has quite a bit of extremely intricate inlay work, but the rosettes are
ridiculously crude with about 4x the amount of glue needed. I'm certain that the center rosette was knocked out at one point and glued back on very,
very badly.
What it needs:
The single greatest thing keeping it from being playable right now is the easiest to solve - the pegbox has come unglued from the neck, and is
currently held in place by string tension. There's also a significant crack in the thin veneer on the back of the pegbox.
However, for the best possible sound, and to improve the longevity of the instrument, there's a few splits in the rib seams that should be repaired, a
bit of a crack in the soundboard under the inlays around the center hole, and then there's the butt ugly rosettes. Those are just coming out, period.
I might be inclined to not replace them, though they do provide an excellent aesthetic. Still not sure on that one.
So, I'm guessing the top is going to have to come off in order to fix the bowl, which should involve cleats to reinforce the split, yes? Given the
inlays along the binding (including one place where they seem to have been worn/finished/broken through?) will pulling/regluing the top turn into a
jigsaw puzzle? Could most/all of the repair work be done once the rosettes are out, without pulling the top, or should I plan on taking it off?
Then there's other things like the fact that the heel block was never sanded flush with the ribs, but fixing that would involve refinishing the
instrument entirely, and I'm not sure if that wouldn't cause more problems than it solved...
[file]27106[/file] [file]27105[/file] [file]27104[/file] [file]27102[/file] [file]27101[/file] [file]27103[/file]
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BaniYazid
Oud Junkie
Posts: 225
Registered: 8-20-2010
Location: France
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Hello and welcome to this forum.
I don't think it's necessary to remove the soundboard to repair the cracks on the bowl.
I have done the same repair by applying wood glue directly on the crack, pushing gently one side to allow the glue to penetrate, and maintaining the
ribs with some tape after wiping the excess of glue.
You can also reinforce the repair by glueing an other paper strip, but you have to remove the big rosette. It may not be comfortable to do that by the
soundhole.
Reinforcing the bowl crack with cleats is not a god idea I think (wait for other advice!), It can be done under the soundboard cracks, like they do
for guitar and violin, but on a convex form...
Parchment paper and hot hide glue seems to be a good option for bowl and soundboard cracks which are not too wide.
The "heel block" is simply a veneer glued on the ribs, not inlayed.
"but I figured for $70 I could get my feet wet in restoring it"
Absolutely ! I bought a broken oud just to repair it... still awaiting !
Regards
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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Registered: 6-4-2004
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Hi there,
Just saying I second everything said by BaniYazid. It is sound advice and I would follow it.
When you take off the rosette, hold the oud to a light and look inside, you will see all the spots which may need some reinforcements. Some glue and
paper strips and BaniYazid said.
Regarding your pegbox. you can do the same by pressing some glue in with your finger and apply a little pressure to close the gaps.
Make sure you clean the old glue before you reatach the pegbox in the slot.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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Shlomobaruch
Oud Admirer
Posts: 4
Registered: 6-29-2013
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Thanks for the reply. I was already planning on removing the rosettes, and that went down fine. Having the oval sound hole was a large benefit to
that. I have a prying tool used for opening Apple devices called "iSesamo", which is a flexible, polished piece of metal with just the right angles
and edges to get into just about any crack. It's a thing of beauty that's come in handy for lots of things besides popping open iPods and Macbooks,
and it broke through the glue smooth and gentle in a couple minutes. I'm leaving them off for now. If I feel like testing my patience and ability to
see straight, I may at some point try making new ones, but I'm fine with open holes for now. Anyway, after that, I used parchment paper and hide glue
on the cracks. Completely closed the ones near the heel, and the one near the neck is thinner than a hair now, and is at least reinforced. Also
fixed the business with the soundhole crack with some hide glue.
Turns out, the part I thought would be easiest is what has given me the most grief. After removing the old glue from the pegbox and neck joint (and
leveling some surfaces that maybe shouldn't have been leveled!) I wound up with some significant gaps in the fit that I couldn't resolve. And if I
removed any more material to make the fit, I would have lost the shelf for the nut. So I made some shims with some oak I have, and used wood filler
on the rest. It's uglier than I was expecting, but it should definitely hold. Waiting on the nut and strings to finish it out.
The one question I kind of still have is about the finish. In fitting the pegbox, the finish on all surfaces around that joint had to come off, and
I'd like to reseal it, I just don't know with what. My current plan was to just use a beeswax and orange oil sealer/restorant, but if someone has a
better idea, I'm all ears.
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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I would avoid oil and or beeswax as you won't be able to apply anything over it in the future without sanding down to bare wood.
Shellac is the common finish used on most ouds. It is cheap and can be brushed or applied with a pad or even spread with your finger. It can be easily
removed with denatured alcohol is you decide to refinish the entire instrument with something like Tru-oil varnish.
Next time you repair a crack, just apply a little warm water to soften the old glue, then apply a little hot hide glue. Nothing is as strong or as
workable as hot hide glue, take the time to learn to mix and prepare it.
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Shlomobaruch
Oud Admirer
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Registered: 6-29-2013
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Well, I did wind up using the beeswax, but it's not particularly thick, and with where it is, going to the bare wood wouldn't be difficult. I just
didn't know what to expect for a somewhat antique, unlabeled, foreign instrument.
Yes, I used hide glue to fix the splits, and I totally love working with it. I got to learn the ins and outs of it when I repaired some major
separations on my double bass, and it's really cool when you can mix it to different consistencies depending on what you need. I might invest in an
actual glue pot at some point. Thinking I was only ever going to fix that bass, I just used a thrift store coffee maker as a double boiler with a
meat thermometer to watch the temp. But my next project will be to build a case for this oud (per another thread on this forum - the period kind).
In the meantime, I'm just pleased as punch that the oud itself is holding up.
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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I bet $500 it's old shellac. You can clean it off with denatured alcohol and 0000 steel wool. You might be surprised to find some nice wood under the
dirty old shellac.
I use a small fondue pot for my glue cooking. It gets the optimum temperature, and is another thrift store score.
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Shlomobaruch
Oud Admirer
Posts: 4
Registered: 6-29-2013
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The ready made stuff is close, but not quite as good and it has one significant drawback. The solvent used to keep it soft at room temperature makes
it incompatible with traditional hide glue, so if the seam ever needed redoing/adjusted, you'd have to *completely* remove all of the ready made glue
in order for traditional hide glue to work. It's not worth it - get some hide glue from a woodworking or piano shop (local or online), get a glass
coffee maker to use as a double boiler, and for less than $20 you have a whole bunch of the best wood glue on the planet.
I think PVA would be too soft. IIRC, it's like rubber cement, yes? Again, better to go with what's known to work, unless it offers some significant
advantage I'm not thinking of.
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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Mood: better than before
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Quote: Originally posted by Lute  | | Quote: Originally posted by Dr. Oud |
Next time you repair a crack, just apply a little warm water to soften the old glue, then apply a little hot hide glue. |
Dear Richard,
How about using PVA to repair a crack on the soundboard, what are the cons?
There is a ready hide glue on the market, would that be ok to use, or it is best to be left alone?
Regards.
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PVA is a synthetic and flexible adhesive that will absorb vibration across the crack. It the crack is wide enough, fill it with a sliver of matching
wood, spruce or cedar, and use hot hide glue it in so the vibration is transferred across the crack. You can also reinforce the crack with parchment
paper on the inside, again with hot hide glue. It the crack is a hairline, apply the glue to both surfaces of the crack by pushing carefully next to
it to open the crack slightly.
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