joh-un
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Turkish Tanbur tuning
Hello, I am a new member of this forum and I am sorry to be asking about Turkish tanbur tunings, rather than the oud (which I also love).
I just received a Turkish tanbur from Izmir this very evening and I'm trying to understand what the "standard" tuning is, in terms of Western concert
pitch.
Should it be (low to high):
A2
A3
A3
D3
D3
G4
G4
or
G2
G3
G3
D3
D3
A4
A4
?
Thank you in advance for any advice you could give me. I want to get onto playing this beautiful instrument as soon as possible. 
sincerely,
joh-un
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adamgood
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Hi Joh-un,
I'm no expert but I've taken a few lessons on tanbur with some very reliable people (one lesson with Abdi Coskun who is totally awesome) so here's my
two cents:
The highest pitch string is the most important and least variable, the others are more your choice. Looks like you have a 4-course tanbur (mine was 3
from what I remember).
Tune highest pitch string to concert A...it's the Yegah pitch for Bolahenk tuning. For Bolahenk tuning, the pitch for Rast will be located at the "4th
fret" (eliminating microtones).
String below (I call it 2nd string) you could tune to D...or E.
3rd string A?
4th string...is it a big fatty bass string? I would think a D but don't quote me on that. My instrument didn't have a big fatty.
Ok hopefully others chime in!
Adam
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joh-un
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Thanks for your reply, Adam, but I am sort of really really confused.
The guy I got it from gave me this advice:
"TUNING OF TANNBUR
in piano the bottom is A
yellow strings is E or D depends on what song you play
top is G
If bottom is G top is A General Rule"
I just broke a middle course string from obviously trying to wind it too tightly.
See, the problem is, I have no understanding of yegah and rast, and I kind of need to tune the tanbur using my tuner which tunes A1, A2, A3, A4,
etc.
There are seven strings and they are in three courses.
From my head to the floor, they are:
yellow-coloured
silver
silver
yellow-coloured
yellow-coloured
silver
silver
His advice gives me no sense of octave. I can't read Turkish and was kind of hoping to tune it so that I could hold down one finger across all the
strings to strum a minor chord.
Like:
A
A
A
D
D
F
F
That way I could use it as a rhythm instrument (playing minor and major chords) and also use it as a melodic instrument.
The only problem is I felt like it was too "buzzy" if the strings weren't a bit higher tensioned, but I have no idea what the proper range
(octave-wise) should be.
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joh-un
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Sorry, but by "buzzy" I meant "way too loose" and flappy.
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Jody Stecher
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To tune as you propose, the standard gauges of tanbur strings are not suitable. If you get some very fine gauges of steel wire and very fine (narrow)
gauges of wound metal string you can find out what works for your tuning idea. Tanbur strings are meant to have the all the A notes (except the wound
bass) in unison. So when you try to tune some of them lower, of course they flop and buzz.
For the strings you tuned too high, you are lucky that it was the strings that broke and not the tanbur. This is a delicate instrument and is not
braced like a guitar and not intended to stand up to stress.
I am not a tanbur player so I may be mistaken about the following but I believe the typical intended tuning starting with the thickest string and
ending with the course nearest the ground when the tanbur is held in playing position is as follows:
single bass A1
A2 A2
D2 D2 or E2 E2
A2 A2
yes, the same A2 again. and the same gauge steel string. This A2 double course is where most of the melody will be played. To see a close up of this
in action, done by a master player here is a link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOEQbExIejs
And now I hope you will forgive me for dissenting from your plan of action:
What you have there in your tanbur is a highly specialized musical instrument designed to bring out a variety of timbres and to articulate tiny
differences in pitches. In my opinion, using it for playing chords is like using a Stradivarius violin for a drum. It works —sort of — but it's
a waste of its true potential. And it's not really the best candidate for the job anyway. And it might get damaged so that its true function is
disabled. You can use a computer for a doorstop or a chair. It will do but it's not the best tool for the job and it ignores its intended use.
Saz, on the other hand can make some excellent chordal music.
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joh-un
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Jody,
thanks so much for your reply. I realise that my intention is a bit unconventional but I hope to use the tanbur mostly as droning in an open minor
chord, if that makes sense. But looking at your recommended tuning and a followup e-mail from the guy I got it from, now I have to admit that I'm
REALLY confused. The guy I got the tanbur from gave me some follow up information:
"Hİ
The range for Tuning is 440 mhz
the bottom is A in Digital Tuner 440 mhz
yellow strings is E or D Depends on what song you play
Top Strings is G or A
here is video for tuning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nN13_v31z8
also
another info by players
tuning for the bottom steel strings diyapose (440 Hz.) is 2 octave lower it is called Yegah
Yegah=110Hz., Neva=220Hz., thin Neva=440Hz."
According to the limited understand of notes that I have, and completely relying on wikipedia's page here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation
an A note at 440 Hz. would be an A4.
I checked with him and when he says "bottom", he means closest to the player's feet.
So, that seems to imply (using his terminology where the melody course is the "bottom") a 'top to bottom' tuning of this:
A2 <- yellow (110 Hz)
A3 (220 Hz)
A3 (220 Hz)
D3 <- yellow (146.83 Hz)
D3 <- yellow (146.83 Hz)
A4 (440 Hz)
A4 (440 Hz)
If that's the case, then I thought my attempt at lowering the melody course to F4 (349.23 Hz) should be slightly easier on the instrument than the
standard A4 (assuming I'm understanding any of this correctly).
However it was one of the middle D copper (yellow) strings that broke.
I DID just receive it from Turkey the other day via international shipping and I am in Japan which is in humid peak of summer.
I don't want to damage my instrument by any means, but when I had it low in the range you said of like A1, A2, A2 for example, it really buzzed and
flopped in a way that didn't sound like any of the videos I've seen of the tanbur and sounded "wrong" to my (admittedly) inexperienced ears.
I really appreciate Adam and Jody's help. Please help me make sense of this and I promise to upload some videos of me playing it.
I don't wanna damage my tanbur....
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Jody Stecher
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I think it's time for an expert to step in. All I can say is that tanbur is tuned low. No open strings can be 440 hz. The scale is so long that for a
A4 to be an open string the diameter of that string would have to be nearly microscopic. Unless of course you have a "mini-tanbur'. Good luck.
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joh-un
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Thanks Jody.
Is anyone on this forum a tanbur player?
I'm kind of desperately wanting to make sure I don't damage my instrument.
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adamgood
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Great that you found the video about tuning! You could go with this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nN13_v31z8
Match your strings to his pitch...but here's what I believe he's using:
He begins with the highest pitched string,
1. A=220 Hz (not 440!!)
2. Below that is E=164.8 Hz
3. Then D=146.8 Hz
4. Then the bass A=110Hz
Anyone else wanna spot check that? And this is assuming your lowest pitched string on your instrument is a single big fatty...is that the case? Or do
you have a double course there? Better way to ask is, how many strings does your instrument take? How many pegs?
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joh-un
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Adam, my tanbur has seven strings. Seven pegs. I've been trying to figure out how to attach photos to show everyone.
The strings are (closest to face down to the floor-closest):
copper )
steel ) a three-string course in that it's almost impossible to not play all three at the same time (like a the melody course of a saz, but in
steel ) what would be the "bass" side of things from a saz perspective
copper )
copper ) two string course
steel )
steel ) two string course (supposed to be the melody course, right?)
Thanks to everyone for your help and opinions and I do not know what I'm doing and was receiving conflicting information and so I didn't mean to make
anyone feel like I was challenging them. I sincerely appreciate Jody and Adam's help. Here in Japan there are no tanbur teachers. I am not really able
to understand Turkish beyond google translate.
Thank you for helping me and I really hope that once I get my tanbur properly tuned I can maybe upload some of my sonic ideas to thank you
properly.
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joh-un
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Maybe this might be a convenient workaround to show you the photos:
http://bangofsun.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/photo-1.jpg
http://bangofsun.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/photo-2.jpg
http://bangofsun.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/photo-3.jpg
http://bangofsun.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/photo-4.jpg
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adamgood
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Ok here's what I'd vote for, having played tanbur and having watched that video of the guy tuning:
copper ) A=110Hz
steel ) = These are debatable...if the wire is the same gauge as the A=220Hz strings i'm suggesting below, then that's what they oughta be. If a
different gauge, like, thicker, then could be "D" or "E"
steel ) = These are debatable...if the wire is the same gauge as the A=220Hz strings i'm suggesting below, then that's what they oughta be. If a
different gauge, like, thicker, then could be "D" or "E"
copper ) D=146.8 Hz (or "E"!)
copper ) D=146.8 Hz (or "E"!)
steel ) A=220Hz
steel ) A=220Hz (yes, these are the "melody" strings)
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joh-un
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The thing is. If I tune it to that set up,
A1
A2
A2
D2
D2
A2
A2
any note I try and play below the 20th fret can't be played (except for open).
If I do so it buzzes so ugly that it's disgustingly making me wonder if the instrument is already damaged or otherwise it just flat out cuts out and
no discernible note is produced.
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Jody Stecher
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have you got the bridge in the right place?
Quote: Originally posted by joh-un  | The thing is. If I tune it to that set up,
A1
A2
A2
D2
D2
A2
A2
any note I try and play below the 20th fret can't be played (except for open).
If I do so it buzzes so ugly that it's disgustingly making me wonder if the instrument is already damaged or otherwise it just flat out cuts out and
no discernible note is produced.
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joh-un
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I wonder if the face of the tanbur is supposed to dip in slightly where the bridge is?
I mean, is it supposed to be flat like a saz is?
I hope I haven't destroyed my tanbur already....
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joh-un
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Jody, the guy I bought it from had pencil marks where I assume the bridge should be.... but I don't know which side of those marks the bridge should
be on.... in front of or behind...
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joh-un
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Sorry, I double-checked. The pencil lines indicate exactly where the bridge should be and there is even a kind of worn area that shows where the
bridge used to be before I got the tanbur... so I'm convinced that the bridge is where the previous owner had it.
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joh-un
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Could the face of my tanbur have warped due to the humidity and heat of a Japanese summer?
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joh-un
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Jody, how would I know if the bridge is in the right position, if the pencil marks that the guy I got the tanbur from marked on the soundboard (which
I discovered is SUPPOSED to be curved, oops!) turn out to be in the wrong place...?
There seems to be evidence of the bridge having been in a different position due to the a slightly different lighter patch of wood on the soundboard
in the same shape as the legs of the bridge... however the pencil marks and that slightly different lighter coloured patch aren't in the same
place.
Sorry to be hassling you and Adam, but I really am at wit's end.
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abc123xyz
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| Quote: Originally posted by joh-un | | Jody, how would I know if the bridge is in the right position, if the pencil marks that the guy I got the tanbur from marked on the soundboard (which
I discovered is SUPPOSED to be curved, oops!) turn out to be in the wrong place...? |
Do you know which fret on your tanbur is for the note an octave above the open string's note? I do not, but locate that fret and make sure that the
bridge and upper nut are the same distance from it.
Although I wouldn't think that the bridge being shifted a few millimeters in front or behind of where it's supposed to be would cause such terrible
buzzing problems. Something's wrong with your action (string height above the neck), most likely due to the strings being too loose, as overly taught
strings would bend the neck and raise the action, not lower it. If a string pressed down against a fret is banging noisily on frets lower
down on the neck, then the action is too low. Your having broken a string while tuning does not guarantee that you were tuning it too high, as you
may have decided(?); the string may had a defect, or have been too worn, and it was just its time to go.
Also, from the photo you posted your tanbur appears to be smaller than the one in the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOEQbExIejs . Before you do anything else you need to measure your instrument and make sure that it's standard
length. If your tanbur is smaller than standard, and you're trying to tune it to standard pitch, then of course the strings are going to be too
floppy.
If, after determining the size of your tanbur, and thus its proper tuning, and the proper placement of your bridge, you still have buzzing, then
you'll need to consider the possibility that you have the wrong gauge of strings on your instrument. Get a hold of a set strings whose diameters you
can be certain of, such as a new set in the package and labelled, and try those on your tanbur. Alternately, if you have some calipers...
If none of these things help, then you need to get your money back; there's some structural defect in your instrument.
David
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joh-un
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Thanks for your reply, David.
I did some measuring.
My tanbur's measurements are this:
from tip of the head to the end of the body - 136cm
from the tip of the head to the end of the fretboard - 100.5
from the nut to the edge of the fretboard - 78cm
I have yet to change the strings, but I wonder if I might have damaged the nut by tuning the strings too high?
If this is the case, is that an easy thing to fix?
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abc123xyz
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Sorry for not replying sooner, but I haven't had access to a computer for a few days.
| Quote: Originally posted by joh-un | Thanks for your reply, David.
I did some measuring.
My tanbur's measurements are this:
from tip of the head to the end of the body - 136cm
from the tip of the head to the end of the fretboard - 100.5
from the nut to the edge of the fretboard - 78cm |
Well I'm not an expert on the tanbur by any means (Maybe I should have stated that first? ¦·D ), but, to my understanding, yours is indeed the most
common size of tanbur, so I'm less certain now that you might have been tuning it too low.
| Quote: Originally posted by joh-un | | I have yet to change the strings, but I wonder if I might have damaged the nut by tuning the strings too high? |
Well it doesn't appear broken in the photo you provided, though if it is too low that could cause rattling, but only when the strings are
played open. It should have no effect on the strings rattling when they're pressed down against a fret.
If a tanbur's bridge is anything like that of an oud or saz, then it shouldn't be too difficult to replace. It's just a short slat of bone set into a
slot in the neck, held in place with a drop of hide glue.
However, like I say, it doesn't seem likely that your nut is damaged, and I'm afraid I have no more ideas myself why your getting a rattling sound
:·(
David
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