Edward Powell
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TUNING SYSTEMS in Turkish, Arabic, & Indian music
Hi Friends...
...I just finished writing quite a long answer to a friends question about TUNING SYSTEMS... So I thought I would also share this here for those who
are interested:
- - -
No, what you are doing is very wise (learning raga and maqam at the same time) - keep at it...
...and this question is a a very very good one - in fact, this was exactly my very first serious question that I encountered immediately after making
my strong decision to really understand makams.
So the thing seems complex but actually it is very simple - the problem is limited explanations such as the one you described to me from that book...
however books are good, but you need to people to ask to give you the BIGGER PICTURE.
So what you are dealing with now is:
1) INDIAN MUSIC - raga
2) ARABIC MUSIC - maqam
3) TURKISH MUSIC - makam
They all have the same type of system of note naming... all the same.
In Indian music you have S R G M P.... etc.
In Arab/Turk music you have RAST - DUGAH - SEGAH - CARGAH - NEVA etc
.....so in the way it is exactly the same.
However in Indian music SA is always always the TONIC.
In makam/maqam RAST is not always tonic... tonic can technically be anything but is usually DUGAH, RAST, NEVA etc etc...
Turks often, rather than saying RAST, DUGAH, SEGAH etc, will say SOL, LA, SI ----similar to SA, RE, GA. . . . Arabs will do the same but say DO,
RE, MI.
So,
- in Indian music SA, RE, GA always means ROOT, 2ND, 3RD
- In Turk music SOL, LA, SI (corresponding to how it is written) always means RAST, DUGAH, SEGAH (remember, like in Indian music except for SA, any
of these notes might be sharp or flat, so in this case if SEGAH is flat, then it would be named KURDI NOTE)
- in Arab music DO, RE, MI (written) is RAST, DUGAH, SEGAH (when we are talking about RAST MAQAM of course.... we generally use the RAST "scale" as a
way to explain it, but the notes change with different makam/maqams)
Once you have sort of digested all of that the main point you need to understand in order to make any sense out of all of this, is this:
What is easy to understand in Indian music is this: SA can be anything at all... you decide, then you tune your instrument to make SA that note -
and off you go.......
Now, the exact same thing is true for makam/maqam music. As you see with raga music, what you have is a SYSTEM and it is based around SA... SA is the
TONIC.
makam/maqam is also a SYSTEM and it is based around the RAST NOTE which is NOT always the tonic.
In Indian music, for SA you just write on you paper "S", and you say "Sa"
In Turkish music, for RAST, you write G on the music paper and you say "Sol".
In Arab music, for RAST, you write C on the music paper and you say "Do".
......but all three of these systems can and obviously do shift around to starting from different spots, which means that SA can be C#, D or anything,
as you know.
The makam/maqam systems can also transpose as well and very often do... the confusion comes because the most COMMON place to play RAST for Turks is
G, and for Arabs C..... but remember that these are also transpositions. . . . or you might say that the ARAB system uses the correct "home
tuning" simply because for them when you write C you really do play C.
Raga is easier to understand because you always have SA and then you just tune to whatever, and keep calling it SA...
With makam/maqam, every "SYSTEM TRANSPOSITION" has a name.
RAST = (D) is called BOLAHANK TUNING SYSTEM (most common Turk)
RAST = (A) is called KIZNEY (also very common Turk)
RAST = (C) is called SUFURDE (most common Arab tuning)
RAST = (G) is called MANSUR etc etc...
So what is also confusing is that Arabs consider RAST as the first note in the SYSTEM, but Turks consider YEGAH as the first note.... hence RAST is
written up as Sol rather than down at Do.
So this makam/maqam system is very good because that means that if you have a piece of music, and you suddenly want to play in a different tonic - you
never have to re-write the whole damn thing as you must do in the West. Can you imagine how absurd this would be with Indian music if SA was always
C(Do), and if you played with C# as tonic you then had to write SA = komal RE etc etc etc..... no, no, this would never work - - - - - therefore
you have one writing system which symbolized the notes in relation to EACHOTHER, then you take this and make the starting point anywhere you want.
Clear?
The point here is that with raga, before you start you speak and agree on what note will be SA, then you tune up and play.
With makam/maqam you first talk and AGREE ON WHICH TUNING SYSTEM YOU WILL USE (bolahank, yildiz, mansur, kizney or whatever), then you start
playing...
The real makam/maqam masters can play all makam/maqam from any note (in any possible tuning system) because very often they are playing with singers
who feel more comfortable one or two semitones higher or lower than the standard tunings.... so they just keep the same sheet of written music (of
course) and just transpose. So when a Turk sees G on the paper all that means is RAST NOTE, and depending on which tuning they are in, RAST note can
literally be anything.
So it is a mistake to claim that Turkish notation for G note always means you play D note!!! no no no.... very often yes it is like this - so
often that some Turks commonly identify the D note with the word SOL, or RAST...... this is very common but it is not completely correct.
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majnuunNavid
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Hi Edward,
This is a good explanation. It's very interesting. I should do a bit more research on this because in Persian music there is mention of dogah, segah,
chahargah, etc. But these are actually names of dastgahs. It's actually making a lot more sense understanding Persian music after learning about
Turkish musical technique. I never studied a full curriculum in any Iranian university so I'm not sure if they cover these things. It's interesting
because in Persian music the original meaning of words such as "dugah" as in "2nd position" may have changed or lost some of it's meaning, at least
the way I've learned in from my teachers.
It makes sense now, if you have first position, second position, third position, fourth position, yegah, dugah, segah, chahargah, etc. The word
dastgah, is also the word for "system", but if you separate the words, "dast" means "hand", and "gah" seems to mean "position", or "place"? But the
importance of this is never mentioned in all my life playing Persian music. We also have Neva (Nava) which means melody, but in Turkish terms it seems
to refer to the note?
We have another dastgah in Persian music which is called Rast-paanjgah, obviously meaning Rast from the 5th position. However, the characteristics of
this dastgah (on the surface) doesn't appear to have any resemblance to the actual meaning of the word rast-panjgah.
I wonder if this is making any sense at all?
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reminore
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edward, thanks for the very nice and a bit raving -big pic - discussion of makam/raag. since it is very early in the morning - i think i will listen
to fayyaz khan singing raag lalit - and then re-read this post...
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Edward Powell
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Registered: 1-20-2008
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Well it is true that it appears that the whole system was born in the entire region on the middle-east perhaps the center of which was persia.
...also it seems clear that as you mention navid, the system started in fact with this one primary scale, which is the 'rast' scale, and everything
grew from there - rast being "position 1" and dugah being "position 2" and segah "pos4" etc etc etc... in fact it is a true modal system primarily
based on this rast scale.
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jdowning
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I have not had time to go through the content of this web site in detail (it is in French) - dealing as it does with matters of music, instruments,
performance and preservation of traditions in Algeria/Maghreb - so the following may be off topic.
About halfway through the extensive blog is a lot of information about musical theory/history including 9 comma and other tone divisions etc that
might be of general interest?
http://diapasondeskikda.blogspot.ca/
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majnuunNavid
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That's great Edward, a lightbulb just went off for me. I'm now thinking about each of the dastgahs that we have in Persian music and it's actually
fits closely to what you just said... I'm going to have to talk to some more Persian musicians about this, because I've actually never encountered
this way of looking at the whole system, and I'm not sure they're aware of it either... The way we learn the whole system does not ever bring any
awareness of this modal quality, which I knew it was modal because of western musical education, but I never tried looking at it from starting from
Rast and going to dugah, segah etc. I'll have to talk to some other Persian musicians and see if they are aware of this.
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Edward Powell
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Posts: 1212
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...for the sake of sharing important knowledge - I will post here now some deep insights from a friend who really knows his stuff.
- - -
In the arab world, the main maqams are Rast, Dugah (more general than Ussak), Segah, Jargah (like Acemasiran from Cargah note yet with a segah rather
than bosalik), Hicaz, nihavent and Saba. Each of these maqam families has its own sub-maqams which are not anyway main. So, Ussak nor Huseyni can be
considered main unless we treat the Ussak like the main Dugah family. Accordingly, if we're to have a closer look at the 7 families together, we'll
find that each of them should be able to touch the others even if transposed from another note within the maqam itself. So, from rast, we can reach
the Dugah from Neva, Segah from its note, Cargah from the main rast note, Hijaz, Nihavent and Saba can be also reached from Neva though Saba can also
be reached from Huseyni. Different options apply.
So, to make a long story short, here's a short list of how to reach what from where on Maqam rast from which you'll know how to apply on the
others:
Rast:
Rast note: you can shift to Nihavent, Hijazkar and more advanced to the Dugah family. You can also shift to Cargah maqam from the same note. Pancgah
and such maqams are applicable. Kurdili Hijazkar, neveser and Nekriz which don't yet have main families can also be touched.
Dugah note: you can shift to the Dugah family directly from Rast, very advanced but heard many times.
Segah note: You can play the segah family from there. Very easy and easy to return.
Busalik note: though Busalik isn't a note of rast, but, you can visit a Saba from there through very advanced actions.
Cargah note has no mention in rast generally though some dealt with it to visit a Nekriz (different from Hijaz from Neva).
Neva note: from Neva you can play rast, Dugah, Hijaz, Saba and Nihavent.
Huseyni note: a very common variation in Egypt is to play Saba from Huseyni.
Gerdanya note: consequently, Turkish Cargah can also be played, mahur and such stuff.
You've to learn one single rule: each maqam is connected to the others and it's you, the musician, who has to find these links. In my Hijaz saz
semaisi, I shifted in one of its sentences to Saba played from the Mahur Note (the natural note of the Evic note). Also, in my Segah saz semaisi, I
shifted to dugah and Rast played from the Segah note (like playing outside the known range all through on Ney and Oud, but I made it anyway). Also,
it's a common thing in the Arab world to play Segah from Neva note or from Gerdanya. One last example is a famous coptic tune in which they shift from
normal Saba to Dugah played from Cargah note (again outside the known range).
So, whoever tells you there's a fixed rule for this, don't believe him. Do as your ears suggest as long as it's music. Believe yourself more than the
theory.
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