Christian1095
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Question about Oud Music
Here's a question in two parts....
1. Is it fair to say that when converting a piece of popular music over to the oud, a good deal of artistic license is taken.... Ie, it's adapted
for the oud, rather than played on the oud...
As an example, a lot of the stuff on OudProff's youtube channel seems to follow the general tune but he adapts it for the instrument.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztmbzOHFs8k&list=PLADBEAE15D4876...
To me, this feels common, but most of my knowledge of ME music comes from this site.... and it seems to be a theme.
2. Is this a constant in Arabic/Middle Eastern music or a recent development? Ie, is it reasonable that a musician in the 15th century would have
the same approach? Is there evidence that describes this as cultural approach to the music or am I off base?
Chris Walters
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Jody Stecher
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In order to help us understand what you mean by "converting" can you please say how or what you envision That To Be Converted to be? Do you mean vocal
music that becomes string music? Dots on a page? Something else?
So much middle eastern music, of all kinds, is heterophonic. (Each instrument plays a version of a flexible melodic model that is in accord with that
instrument's strengths and limitations). Because these different instruments are playing slightly differently from each other not in sequence but at
the same time, to say that a melody does not go the same way twice doesn't quite describe the reality. It is funny but true to say that a typical
middle eastern melody never goes the same way *once*.
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Christian1095
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Yeah, sorry, I'm having a hard time putting the concept into words that make sense...
The dots on the page are not played exactly as they are written.... In western music, if you were to do that, the first thought would be "why did you
ruin that song" -- but in middle eastern music, that does not seem to be the case and seems to be expected and appreciated...
So I'm wondering how far back this can be documented... since this seems to be one of the things that defines this music to my ears....
Chris Walters
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Jody Stecher
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Writing down the melodies in western notation is a relatively recent thing. In context the page of staff notation is not meant to be taken literally
except when learning somebody else's solo note for note as part of study, or following a teacher's suggestion as part of study, or except in a big
ensemble where there is fixed arrangement for the purpose of a coordinated performance in a formal concert or a recording session for instance. But in
general a notated melody is a guideline. The notation is not the music. It's a very clever and helpful storage medium. So imagine a vocalist, an oud
player, a flute player and a qanun player looking at the same page. They will each play differently and each of them is more "correct" than the page
is. The qanun will use two hands and many fingers and will play some passages in octaves or do different things with each hand. The oud has short
sustain and benefits from repeated strokes with the right hand which can "slice and dice" the rhythm in various beautiful ways. The oud can also
change octaves mid-phrase even though the written page doesn't indicate this. The flute has a long breath so can hold long notes and deviate from the
page. Where it is written CBABC for instance, the flute might elect to play one long C. It forms a "pedal" ( a drone) for the fast moving string
instruments. The vocalist can form words and vowels more easily than instruments can and so this comes into play along with stress according to word
meaning. If the singer would use the tongue to divide a vowel as many times as the oud uses the risha it might sound comical. As you have noticed and
pointed out, in middle eastern music the written score is not intended to clip the wings of the musicians.
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Christian1095
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So then to the second part, is this described in any of the pre-17th century writings about the music? I've been having a discussion with a friend
about the nature of medieval music and my hypothesis is that just because it was written down in a certain way does not mean it was played note for
note... especially if the intent was not to have multiple instruments playing the same tune (like a quartet) but rather, an oud player hears a song,
and then makes whatever changes needed to make it sound good on the oud (ie, Oudproff's examples on youtube)
But again, I'm woefully out of my depth in terms of the academics of the question...
Chris Walters
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Jody Stecher
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My friends who know about "early" European music say that certain written things were intended to be played as written and other sections were
"suggestions". Then there is the matter of the limitations of each instrument and the limitations of the written medium. They say that JS Bach's
violin music is not meant to be taken literally when a four note chord is shown. The four pitches are intended to be played one after another......it
is said. Then also in a Vivaldi concerto there are places where something is written for the soloist but something else (in a similar vein) may be
played by a soloist who is inspired to do so.....I am told. This is later than the 17th century of course.
It seems there has been a progression in how notation has been perceived, a progression from descriptive to prescriptive.
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Christian1095
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OK, but for middle eastern music, I wonder if the same is more or less true... and if so, was there anyone writing about it...
I guess what I'm trying to get at is how far back does the whole idea of improvisation go in ME music..... Is the taqsim in the middle of a song a
recent invention or is it a central part of the music that can be traced back 1000 years.
For example, if you go to a rock concert and there is supposed to be a solo in the middle of the song... chances are it will sound just like the album
version of the solo... that's not the case with the oud (at least as I understand it) So my hypothesis is that music of the middle east is different
than western music because there is a deeper appreciation for improvisation and the artist expressing themselves outside of the written notes (ie,
taking a simple samaii and putting your ornimentation on it) While I have a gut feeling this is true, I would love to see if this goes back into
history or if it's a more modern invention.
Chris Walters
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Jody Stecher
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Some of what has been written about Ottoman music and various kinds of Arab music has been discussed from time to time here on the Oud Forum(s) and
can be found using the Search function.
I am no scholar and could well be wrong but it seems that an early purpose of Taqsim was to create a partition between sections of a suite of
compositions.
I can speak more confidently about western music when I say that there are dozens, probably hundreds of genres where the same piece of music is
performed differently every time it is sung and played. Consider blues, bluegrass, Irish traditional music, the many musics of Greece, all kinds of
jazz, etc. And in many of these musics there is no written score and no reason for there to be one. As for rock and roll, who can forget Keith
Richards's immortal words that summed up Chuck Berry's abandonment of rehearsed music in favor of spontaneity: "Voila, no arrangement"? (in the film
"Hail! Hail! Rock N Roll")
So I would say that altering a melody according to the state of mind and feeling of the singer and/or player is a normal human thing to do and that
people from the middle east are no exception to this. Pretty much all places and peoples also have some kinds of music where the idea is to keep it
the same each time and that also includes the middle east and central asia. For instance the Malouf of Tunisia. I think the Shashmaqam of the "stans"
is pretty strict, for instance.
In other words I don't think fixed vs mutable or bound vs free is a west vs east matter at all.
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hartun
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http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/768680?uid=3739728&uid=2&...
article on history of taksim
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Jody Stecher
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Quote: Originally posted by hartun  | http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/768680?uid=3739728&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102642838343
article on history of taksim |
Thanks for this, Hartun. Access to the full 28 pages took some doing, jumping through a number of hoops, so to speak, but after being automatically
logged out every five minutes by the JSTOR website, I was eventually able to read the entire informative article and its equally informative
footnotes.
In a paragraph about different types of phrasing used by different players on the same instrument there was a reference to the Turkish tanbur player
Izzettin Okte. Besides a few youtube offerings and the same few pieces that appear on several Turkish websites, I have heard only one recording of
this exceptional musician. Does anyone know where recordings of Izzettin Okte may be found?
Thanks!
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