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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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1889 Baseel Altonji restoration
I thoiught youse guys would like to watch this one...Finally on the bench. Step 1 - reglue the tail block.
[file]29977[/file] [file]29979[/file] [file]29981[/file]
[file]29983[/file]
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 9-18-2009
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Label:
Number 123
Work of Baseel Al Tonjy The Carpenter in Aleppo
Year 1889
For the record: the label says Tonjy not Totanjy, like I first thought it's a typographical error, unless someone would correct us saying his name is
Al Tonjy !
Richard: Is this the same oud we've related to here: http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=6286&pa...
Can't wait to see how a skeleton would come back to life 
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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Faladel
Oud Junkie
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Location: Spain
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Mood: ya salam
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Dear Dr.Oud and Alfaraby :
the label says NOT Tonjy and not Totanjy , The label says ALTONJI , great family in Aleppo and that a component was our neighbors . There are several
families Altonji in Aleppo.
Oud Player
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
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Your 300 post came right in time, doc. Thanks for the correction.
I first thought Baseel Altonjy is a relative of a famous Qanoun maker called Gabriel Totanjy. Seems I'm wrong.
Long time we didn't hear from you يا أبا نادر
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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kathyviola
Oud Admirer
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Registered: 11-8-2012
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Richard,
That oud is beautiful. What do you have planned for it? And what kind of wood is it made of? I'm also curious how you got it. There must be a story
there.
Kind regards,
Kathy
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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I plan to restore it and see how it sounds. I have 2 Nahhats (1902&1927) and a 1924 Suliman Haddad that I would sell any 2 of them (lot$) and keep
the leftover. They are all about equal in tone. The Tonjy oud may enter that group or exceed them as a keeper, or if it doesn't make the cut it will
go on the block when restored (lot more$). It is a walnut back & maple neck, but too dirty to be sure at this stage. I acquired it in a barter for
some repair for Ronny Andersson of Switzerland. He also sent me an aged Lebanese cedar soundboard that I may use if it is long enough. This body is
way long and narrow, much like some Roufan Nahhats of the same era.
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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Next step is to rejoin the separated back. The separation is also sprung out of alignment, so I plan to glue it in sections, bending then gluing as I
can match the edges. The ribs are very thin, from 1.5 to 2mm so the curve of the joining ribs must match exactly. The edges are also very dirty,
having been separated for many years, so the old dirty glue will be cleaned off. A little hot water from my glue pot and scrape away with my trusty
Xacto #11. I then cleaned off the top surface so the tape will stick when I bring the edges together and viola! The "walnut" was transformed into
maple. There is a missing piece of rosewood purfling right in the center of the first section to be glued, so it must be replaced. I looked through my
box of rib scraps...nope, then checked out my can of shorter purfling pieces....nope, then in my cubby hole drawer of even smaller pieces, and oh boy!
Not only a close color match, but the right width as well. I little bending to match, trim the ends and prep the matching rib edges, then prime the
rib and patch with hot hide glue. (Rosewood should be primed because of the oils in the wood), now I'll have to wait 'til tomorrow to glue the it
in.
[file]30039[/file] [file]30037[/file] [file]30035[/file]
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
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Location: Beacon, NY
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Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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Wow, I wonder if that's real Lebanese cedar!! Incredibly rare if it is.
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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the back ribs are too hard for cedar. maple/poplar/some kinda hard light colored wood. Ronny did send me some Lebanese cedar, at least he said so.
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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The back is glued together, with some additional filling and leveling yet to be done. The big separation took three separate glue operations, with
some heating and bending at each stage to match the curve of the edges. It looks like birch, or possibly English walnut or some similar nut wood, with
rosewood separation strips. The next step is to re-attach the body to the neck block.
The edge tiles have an unusual profile, stepped up to 3.3mm at the soundboard edge. Only a couple of small fragments of the face remain, measuring
2.3mm, so the edge tiles actually rose 1mm above the surface of the face. Hmmmm?
[file]30343[/file] [file]30345[/file] [file]30347[/file]
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muhssin
Oud Addict
Posts: 39
Registered: 3-28-2013
Location: Germany
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@Dr. Oud,
where on earth did you get this old one?
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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I bartered for some repair for a client.
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muhssin
Oud Addict
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Registered: 3-28-2013
Location: Germany
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that is what I call LUCK
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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Yes, unfortunately the photos were deleted in that thread, so...
[file]30407[/file] [file]30409[/file] [file]30413[/file] [file]30415[/file]
[file]30421[/file] [file]30423[/file] [file]30425[/file]
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
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The edge lamination is interesting. There is a thin strip of rosewood on top of the rib, extending underneath the face. The ogee shaped edge tile is
on top of this strip, then another strip is between the edge of the face and the edge tile. The top of the tile is 1mm above the surface of the face.
Its really a nice way to capture the face edge and protect the top of the face edge as well, doncha think?
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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I could not glue the back down on the neck block with the neck attached, so I removed the neck from the block, then glued the back on. No fixture,
just cleaned the joint with hot water, applied a liberal coat of hot hide glue and let it set up. The next day I attached the rib ends by ironing them
down one at a time on the neck block using a small craft hot iron. The glue joint will later be reinforced on the inside with parchment paper. There
is a lot of patching to be done. Next I'll start to build up the missing 3 ribs.
[file]30493[/file]
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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After the neck block is re-glued to the ribs (what's left) it shows a severe twist in the body. This is probably due to being split apart for so long,
things warped and this is the result. I could make a new neck block, but it might be just a matter of twisting the body back into alignment. In the
same way that ribs are bent, the body could be neated and forced in the other direction plus a spring back factor to re-align the neck block with the
tail. (I hope) If not I can make a new neck block, but the ribs will be off I think.
[file]30532[/file]
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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This isn't a restoration... More like a resurrection
Was I in your shoes, to the dumpster it would have gone
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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send me your broken ouds, any maker, any age. I will even pay some compensation depending on their condition. No instrument belongs in a dumpster. My
roommate had an old Mexican plywood standup 3/4 base given to him. He dismantled it to get the back, which was painted with Mexican girls and a guy
wearing a fez. He screwed the back to the wall, saved the neck w tuners and broke the rest up and put it in the trash. He didn't think of asking me
about it. Such a loss, many old plywood basses are much sought after by jazz bassists and certainly this one would have brought a good price from a
Mariachi bassist. Stupid.
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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So here's my back twister fixture in my usual crude but git er done style. The tail is clamped to a block that's glued to the plywood plate. The
torque arm is screwed to the neck block and clamped on the high side, and some wedges under the other end to twist the back to level with the tail
block. The steam is supplied by my shop espresso machine. I just hope the back bends before the glue releases and all the ribs spring apart!
[file]30534[/file]
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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and OILA! The neck and tail are aligned now at least in one plane. There will be some more bending of the body to align the top surfaces front to
back.
The left rib is distorted and the overall width has shrunk, so I spread the sides apart to a reasonable width and to form a smoother outline curve.
(this will also bring the top surfaces more in alignment). Then I traced the curve of the good side into a board and cut it out. The flattened rib was
heated and clamped in the cleat and left to cool down.
There's a lot of patching, leveling, gluing and lining the inside with new parchment paper to reinforce the seams. The old paper lining has dried out
and is not contributing much.
There are 3 missing ribs to replace as well.
[file]30537[/file]
[file]30539[/file]
[file]30541[/file]
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
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Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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Well I'm stuck in sprung rib hell. There' so much damage, distortion and missing pieces I think it'll take a year to just fix the back. Oh Man! The
process: clean and re-glue each rib seam one at a time. After gluing, Scrape off the old rotted paper liner strip and replace with new parchment
paper. Finally, using a small craft iron, flatten the sprung section to level the back surface to minimize any leveling sanding. Yes, Martha, it will
have to be sanded, patina or not, it just is too distorted to align the seams. Then there's 3 missing ribs, an one side there seems to me not enough
tail block for the top rib, so that'll have to be built up. Oh Man!
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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Measuring the width of the bowel it seems much too narrow to me (13 in /33cm). In addition, the neck block top surface is way out of alignment with
the tail block top surface. So I decided to re-shape the back by clamping the bowel top to bottom and squeezing until it looks more like I think it
should (15in/38cm). While I doing that there is a distortion of the rib in the lower left bout that needs correcting. I traced a cleat from the right
side and cut it out of a block of redwood. After clamping I heated the top ribs and the clamped section with my heat gun and will keep it clamped for
a few days. Hopefully it will spring back to around 14in/35.5cm wide. There's still a lot of patching to do, as well as re-aligning the seams and
replacing the old paper liner strips.
[file]31131[/file]
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journeyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 492
Registered: 12-28-2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Doc, if you can restore this oud you should try your hand at raising the dead! The suspense is killing me. -Roy
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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Roy, maybe you'll be next! Seriously, this will be a long process, there are so many things to do to get the back restored, I haven't even counted all
the problems. Each repair takes a day to cure the glue, and I can't do more than one at a time in order not to disturb the fresh repair, so be
patient, chill, take a pill, whatever.
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