juju
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considerations about strings tension
These last two years I tried to experiment different strings tensions on my arabic oud. I 'd like to share some of my conclusions ... of course it's
totally subjective.
* Higher than 3,7kg, my oud sounds like a classical guitar. The particular sound of the oud seems to be absent with high tension.
* Lower than 2,7kg, strings are too light to make the oud sounds correctly. The rich medium/bass sound you can expect with an arabic oud is not enough
highlighted.
*A good compromise seems to be around 3,0kg.
I also find that slight variations around this tension have an important impact on the sound. Then the issue of the "tension" has to be considered
string by string. I believe that the main reason of that finding is that we use different kind of materials (nylon, pvf, wound, etc.) and different
kind of gauges for an 11 strings set. I believe that each string has to be considered separtly and follows its own rules. The "G nylon" and the "D
wound" shouldn't have the same tension.
What I call "slight variations" around 3,0kg could be 0,1kg or less. In term of playability that kind of variation has no impact but in term of sound,
differences can be heard. The catalogue of strings manufacturers helps to illustrate that point. In the pyramid catalogue, some strings seemed to be
added years after years ... for example you find 1114 between 1014 and 1015 ... I believe it was an add-on (if it's not the case, the guy that makes
the string nomenclature for pyramid might be insane) ... I tried those 3 strings for the A : the 1015 was too loud (3,17kg) and the 1014 was too light
(2,92kg) the 1114 was a good compromise, I use it at present. The same example is seen for the D ... you find 3 intermediate strings (9085, 909,1085)
between 1008 and 1009. For the D, I also found that those intermediate strings are important to make the right choice, even if they introduce very few
variations in term of tension.
The very last point is that the string set is a sort of equilibrium, if only one of the strings is too low or too thick, it can have an impact on the
global sound of the oud. If you play an A4 on the oud, the A3 (open string) play an important role in the timbre.
I believe all of this is completly subjective, the sum of factors that play a role in the sound emission is important : the right hand technique, the
kind of risha, the oud characteristics (size, wood, etc...). The tension of the strings is one of this factor.
I'm not a specialist of those question, but I found important to spend time reaching a sound I'm confortable with. My string dealer was also happy to
help me in that expensive quest  ...
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Jody Stecher
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Well done!
I have also observed the oddity of the Pyramid Lute String numbering system. The following idea is based on speculation, not on observation: could it
be that the strings whose number begins with 11 have a different ratio of winding to core than the strings whose number begins with 10? Or perhaps a
different sort of core? In other words, is the 11 series structurally different than the 10 series?
There is another factor to consider. On *some* ouds, *some* string types need to be played for some time before it is known how they sound and
respond and how they interact with the other strings. This may be minutes or hours. Other string types need to sit unplayed for 24 hours before they
give forth musical sounds. And yet this is not the case with the same string on a different oud. And some strings give forth their best sound and
response immediately. Except on a different oud, where they don't.
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rojaros
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Jody, all strings have to settle and that takes some time, usually more than one day. During this time they stretch more than later, when the tuning
stays stable (at least with well made tuning pegs).
I did inquire at Pyramid about their numbering system, but couldn't get any understandable answer. There seems to be no direct connection to gauge or
tension in the number.
When I order a customized set I tell them which tension I wish and the scale length, and they compose a set for this with their numbers...
I asked maestro Mustafa Said about his string tension recommendation and he said 2.7kg is low tension and 3kg should not be significantly exceeded. He
plays all wound strings (no plains) at 3kg and his c'c' is higher tension, but only because hes has problems getting 3kg wound c'c'.
Daniel Mari strings seem to be rather on the lower edge of the tension scale, but they still sound nicely. I quite prefer them over the generic
Pyramid oud sets.
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Microber
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Quote: Originally posted by rojaros  |
I asked maestro Mustafa Said (...) He plays all wound strings (no plains) at 3kg and his c'c' is higher tension, but only because hes has problems
getting 3kg wound c'c'. |
He plays all wounded strings ???
Even gg and cc ?
Robert
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rojaros
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| Quote: Originally posted by Microber | | Quote: Originally posted by rojaros |
I asked maestro Mustafa Said (...) He plays all wound strings (no plains) at 3kg and his c'c' is higher tension, but only because hes has problems
getting 3kg wound c'c'. |
He plays all wounded strings ???
Even gg and cc ?
Robert |
Positively sure, yes. I myself participated in a workshop with him, and even helped him to change a broken c' string - wound! He played a most
wonderful arabic oud of 57 cm scale length and all wound strings. As c'c' he had Pyramid 805 - the thinnest they make in copper, silver plated, and he
said it's a bit too strong.
BTW he also uses planetary pegs of some kind.
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Matthias
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Hello Robert,
yes Mustafa is using a set of all wound strings on his 57 scale oud, the set is as follows:
c'c' // PY 805 // ~ 43 N
gg // PY 9075 // 37 N
dd // PY 1111 // 37,5 N
GG // PY 1023 // 37 N
FF // PY 1029 // 37 N
C // PY 1443 // 44 N
Best regards
Matthias
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Brian Prunka
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| Quote: Originally posted by rojaros | Jody, all strings have to settle and that takes some time, usually m
I asked maestro Mustafa Said about his string tension recommendation and he said 2.7kg is low tension and 3kg should not be significantly exceeded. He
plays all wound strings (no plains) at 3kg and his c'c' is higher tension, but only because hes has problems getting 3kg wound c'c'.
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Note that Mustafa's strings are far in excess of 3Kg! And he has no A string? odd, to say the least.
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rojaros
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Well, about the tension I can't say anything.
Whether he has an a string or not I also can't prove or disprove, but , when he was at the workshop, he definitely had a string and no f string
Whatever he has or hasn't, he has what he needs to play divine music.
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rojaros
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Well, about the tension I can't say anything.
Whether he has an a string or not I also can't prove or disprove, but , when he was at the workshop, he definitely had an a string and no f string
Whatever he has or hasn't, he has what he needs to play divine music.
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Microber
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To Brian : yes indeed, 37N is more than 3.7kg ! [edit : more than 3 kg]
No A string ? Very odd. I already see him in Badenweiler. But I was in the group of Adel Salameh. So I had no contact with Mustafa.
To Rojaros : You say he had an A string and no F. So it was probably CGAdgc.
I also use a wounded string for the gg on my Fadi Matta floating bridge 60cm : PY1006.
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rojaros
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| Quote: Originally posted by Microber | ...
To Rojaros : You say he had an A string and no F. So it was probably CGAdgc.
I also use a wounded string for the gg on my Fadi Matta floating bridge 60cm : PY1006.
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Microber, hope the strings are not bleeding being wounded  ...
I'm also going to try wound strings for gg and cc, that sounded marvelous in the hands of Mustafa Said (which of course doesn't mean it'll sound
marvelous in my hands )
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Microber
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wound... wounded 
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Matthias
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I got a feed back from Mustafa concerning his tuning. He told me:
"The first two upper strings are always tunable. Sometime it is G C other F C other G D other times E A. The two upeer strings always follow the
Maqam I play."
So may be rojaros could have heard an A. But definitively the tension is at 3,7 Kg.
Best regards
Matthias
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rojaros
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Matthias, I can confirm the string numbers of Mustafa from my own notes ... How do you calculate the tension of wound strings? Or did you measure them
in some way?
The only calculator I know is Arto's string calculator, and there seems to be a strange tension template from Pyramid ...
Maybe I misunderstood Mustafa about the 3 kg tension?! But I did listen rather carefully.
However it is, he seems to be quite content with the tension as it is, only the high cc seems to be on the hard side for him (the low bass is a single
string so it needs a bit more tension than pairs).
best
Robert
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Matthias
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Hello Robert,
yes Mustafa is happy with that set, what he is always with my calculation. I fact the only problem is the the high c, the 805 is the thinnest
available silverwound string from Pyramid. He wants to try it now with Aluminium wound strings.
My calculations? I do them for Pyramid strings always with the Pyramid string calculater ( http://music-strings.de/navi.php?a=6298&lang=eng& ) they offer. I would say this is the best authorisation and it is an experienced tool
since around 30 Years.
About the a - May be Mustafa played a maqam for the use of a when you listened.
Yes of course the low single C needs more tension to my experience, and so I did the calculations for many many sets and the clients have been always
very satisfied. Many of them can be found in my shop. I know there are other opinions here. If Ill have the time, we can discuss that in the other
thread.
Regards
Matthias
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