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Author: Subject: My first oud
faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-8-2014 at 12:20 AM
My first oud


Hello everyone
I write from Sardinia in Italy and I am about to make my first oud.
sorry for my English is very poor.
I just built a guitar in my life during a course and now I am begginning to start the most beautiful hobby in the world with the creation of my first oud.
I will follow the text of Mr. Hankey.
I'll be grateful to anyone who will help me in this wonderful process.
The photo shows my mold.
I would also like to know: I'm going in the creation of the handle and lock the handle making the inner block in one piece.
what do you think? thanks to all !!
guido
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jdowning
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[*] posted on 10-8-2014 at 04:41 AM


When you refer to 'the handle' you presumably mean 'the neck'? If so then are you are proposing to make the neck and neck block in one piece and attach it to the mold before fitting the ribs?

It is standard practice for a guitar built in the Spanish style - where the neck and neck block are carved together from one piece of wood and the two sides (ribs) of the guitar fit into slots cut into the side of the neck/neck block.
However, for an oud bowl - having the neck attached to the neck block prior to constructing the bowl - would make construction of the bowl/accurate fitting of the ribs rather difficult without good reason. The usual and most practical method is to fit the ribs with the neck block in place on the mold - the ribs overlap the end of the neck block and the surplus waste material is then cut off when the neck joint is made (prior to fitting the neck) after the bowl is complete.

A detailed step by step procedure for building an oud with images can be found here - which may be of interest in clarifying some of the building procedures.

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=8488

A promising start so good luck with your project.
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SamirCanada
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[*] posted on 10-8-2014 at 04:55 AM


great job so far! I wish you the best with this project.

I would take the pencil lines from your mold and also draw them on the tail block up to the point where you want the ribs to end, this will help you greatly.

Are the dimentions from the book? the oud looks very high and round from the picture, usually the divider section right after the tail block is about the highest point in in the whole oud. It looks like the highest point of the bowl is located at the middle of the bowl where it should really be at the 2/3 and 1/3 meet




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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-8-2014 at 11:34 PM


thanks for the replies.
I had not thought about the problem of the accuracy of the ribs arrival on the handle.
I'll have to be very precise. But I think that the structure is better .. I would will easily. I'll post pictures of the work.
I attach the image of the patter. the size of the book are those in effect even if the mold came a few millimeter grade of the design that I had done with the cad.
anyway thanks for the advice. will verify the accuracy of the mold.
do you think the line is correct?
to me it seems quite similar to that shown in the book. what do you think?
thanks so much

[file]32725[/file]
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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-9-2014 at 12:19 AM


the pencil lines on the block of the queue I have not yet designed, but it will be the next step. Tomorrow I hope to send the first images of the neck - block unfinished.
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SamirCanada
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[*] posted on 10-9-2014 at 02:30 AM


Yes that looks great. It was just the angle of your first picture.
Making the neck block and neck of neck like a guitar is something I want to try so I am interested to see how you achieve this.




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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-9-2014 at 11:24 PM


Hello everyone.
I put the raw block handle internal lock. was made with 4 pieces.
The first two panels forming the side of T. later the block was planed top and bottom to make it perfectly flat and finally I glued the last piece. the photo shows the last gluing (glue bone). The fourth piece does not belong to the same tree. aesthetically shame because I really like the dual color even if it is internal to the instrument.
I hope the inside painting eliminate the defect.
wood is cedrela.


[file]32746[/file]
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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-9-2014 at 11:25 PM


here the block instead of the tail finished.
wood is cedrela also

[file]32748[/file]
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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-9-2014 at 11:29 PM


.. and the template of the ribs.
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Microber
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[*] posted on 10-10-2014 at 02:52 AM


Thanks for sharing the process.
It is always a pleasure.
Even if I am not concerned directly.
(I have never built any instrument and it is not one of my future projets)

Robert
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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-10-2014 at 07:09 AM


thanks robert

in any case if you think of any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
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[*] posted on 10-10-2014 at 11:53 AM


"I hope the inside painting eliminate the defect."

Why are you planning to paint the inside of the bowl faggiuols?
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[*] posted on 10-11-2014 at 03:55 AM


what does he mean by inside painting???????
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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-12-2014 at 11:13 PM


hello jdowning and mhussin
thanks for assistance!
please you read what I write to remind you that I speak very little English and I write it even worse.
Unfortunately, you have to always interpret my words because those are almost never accurate !!
to respond to your questions:
when do made ​​my guitar before gluing the soundboard and then shut down the harmonic box I gave him a coat of shellac with a brush. when I wrote to paint the inside of the oud intend this procedure to make the interior "finished" ..
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[*] posted on 10-12-2014 at 11:34 PM


update job:
I started modeling the group neck - block.
I roughed with the Japanese saw the first elements but I went too deep at one point !!
mistake!

I have to insert a prosthesis to fill the depression created!
the aesthetic problem is not great because it is my intention to cover the neck ..
below I post some pictures of the work ...
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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-12-2014 at 11:36 PM


more images here ..
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[*] posted on 10-12-2014 at 11:39 PM


as seen in the side I went deep into the saw cut in the middle of the neck!!!!!
any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[file]32838[/file]

[file]32840[/file]
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[*] posted on 10-13-2014 at 04:31 AM


Thanks for the clarification faggiuols. Definition of technical terminology between language translations is often a problem - which is why it is sometimes necessary to ask questions for clarification. Not to be taken as a criticism!
You did suggest that you wanted to eliminate the mismatching wood colour in the exposed internal neck block face by 'painting' over it. Opaque paint would serve that objective but not transparent shellac varnish (unless you add some kind of dark opaque pigment to the varnish). Why do you want to shellac the entire inside surface of the finished bowl anyway?
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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-13-2014 at 07:33 AM


Hi Jdowning
I did not I took your post as a criticism! indeed I am very pleased that a connoisseur of oud as you have the desire to follow my topic.
I hope you have a desire to follow the whole process of construction of the instrument with your valuable advice!
I hope I understood your question!
My idea is to paint the inside of opaque shellac for "clean look".
shellac by brush brightens the wood without being polished, but always transparent.
I will use shellac for varnishing transparent end of the instrument outside.
I understand that the shellac you can end both glossy and matte, changes the method of painting. polished is more difficult, is that correct?
to complete, my intention is to put in oud between the ribs is not a tape of heavy paper such as is usually done, but very thin strips of wood to seal the joints of the ribs. I would also like to mount the kerfed linings as in the guitar. I think the best bonding of the soundboard ..
what do you think?
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[*] posted on 10-13-2014 at 12:06 PM


No harm in experimenting with construction/finishing methods that deviate from well established centuries old traditional methods if you have time and are prepared for encountering difficulties but be careful about applying modern guitar methods to oud construction or you may end up with an oud that sounds more like a guitar.

Kerfed linings are not necessary on an oud and may adversely affect the sound board acoustics due to excessive stiffness at the edges. I don't know by how much as I have never used linings on either ouds, lutes (or early guitars) for comparison.

Paper strips glued in place with hot hide glue is the best and easiest way to go for a strong rib joint reinforcement. As the glue cures it shrinks and pulls the rib joints tightly together. Paper is after all made from wood fibres and is flexible enough to fill all of the slight internal bowl surface undulations at the rib joints when saturated with glue.
Of course, once all of the paper strips have been applied on a 19 ribbed oud, the entire interior of the bowl is more or less coated with hide glue - so no need for any other internal finish (that will only add extra unnecessary weight to the bowl for no good reason).

Following progress of this topic with interest.




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[*] posted on 10-13-2014 at 03:26 PM


I would avoid applying kerfing at all especially directly perpendicular to the soundhole to quite a bit bellow the bridge.





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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-13-2014 at 11:23 PM


thanks Jdowning and Samir
you convinced me! was not difficult.
I would like to build an oud according to classical rules even if some of the details seem me unclear and improvable.
I joined this forum in order to have some experts that would follow me in this process not easy.
So thank you very much!
certainly I'll follow your valuable tips.
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faggiuols
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[*] posted on 10-13-2014 at 11:24 PM


spero quanto prima di poter post i prossimi aggiornamenti sul lavoro.
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[*] posted on 10-14-2014 at 05:33 AM


I think if you built a guitar before, some things like the way the soundboard of a oud is attached will seem too weak and its natural to think there is a way to make it attached stronger.

The soundboard is suposed to be very thin able to vibrate a lot, if a soundboard is weakly attached to the bowl, chances are the sound will be better. This may be against all your pre-established ideas and principles but its how it works :)




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[*] posted on 10-14-2014 at 11:16 PM


thanks Samir
I wish the sound of my oud is like a real oud, warm and poetic.
I will do definitely you suggest and I will stick strictly to the rules of construction standard.
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