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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Quote: Originally posted by Dr. Oud  | | The Arabic ouds are known for deep bass and edgy or raspy tone. Turkish ouds are smoother, more mellow with bright trebles. |
Thanks Dr Oud
then I think I'm headed towards an Arab-style oud!
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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a small photo update of the pegbox.
Soon other update.
Happy Easter to everyone!
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Here are a few more photos.
I thought, naively, that make the pegbox would be easier.
Instead create a perfect fit, it's not easy.
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SamirCanada
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Faggiuols,
you should also make the back of the pegbox before you can glue it in the notch.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Hello Samir
I know that must be closed pegbox!
I have not pasted the back because I want that the joint is well done before.
behind the open it helps me to see the out of plumb of the pegbox.
After I close the back of the pegbox ...
thank you so much
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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here is a new image ...
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SamirCanada
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after you cut the extra waste you can start to fit the pegbox.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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thanks Samir
the back is not yet glued .. I just bent wood.
now I have to glue the two sheets (two sheets - one inside Maple and one outside rosewood), then i glue them to the pegbox ..
After I put the Maple fillets in the corners!
I was wondering .. how do you clean the residual glue inside the pegbox?
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SamirCanada
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I use a narrow chisel. Just to scrape it away.
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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thanks for the advice, Samir ....
I also think to a 3mm chisel!
as soon as I do something, I will put the photos on the forum!
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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The pegbox takes its form!
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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hi at all.
an update on my work, as usual, is going slowly.
I'm doing the pegbox and am entering Maple fillets on the corners ...
everything is always much more difficult than I had thought! .. but I'm coming to the end. I now have to enter the rosewood on the corners.
I think it will be very difficult to bend the rosewood to enter it, Rosewood is a hard wood and curves it is narrow ...
I hope in a well work!
to the next...
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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I do not see the picture of my topic!
what happened?
thanks to those who respond
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jdowning
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Hello again faggiuols.
That is an ambitious design of peg box with the tightly in-curved end that - if I understand correctly - you are intending to cover with rosewood bent
to fit. Rosewood is quite brittle to bend in tight curves so best to first boil the veneer in water to soften it before bending and then bend at the
highest possible temperature. No matter if the wood is scorched as this can be removed later by filing or sanding. You can improvise a small diameter
bending iron from a piece of iron pipe or rod of the required diameter held in a vice and heated with a propane torch to the required temperature (of
course, the propane flame is then removed prior to bending). Repeat the heating/bending cycle until the work is complete. The veneer should be of
sufficient length for ease of handling (so there will be some waste material remaining). Bend slowly with minimum pressure to avoid breakage - rocking
the veneer over the surface of the iron as bending proceeds to better distribute the heat. The thinner the veneer the easier it will be to bend.
Bending cross grain is also easier than along the grain of the wood.
An alternative to hot bending would be to build up the veneer in thin layers like plywood or to apply a thicker veneer in strips glued side by side
together.
Due to life's circumstances I have not been in a position or motivated - for the past six months - to progress any of my current or past topics on the
forum. On revisiting them the other day I find - like you - that the images essential to understanding the topic thread are no longer there - so I
assume that there has been another image purge? Some of the deleted images go back two or three years so - if that is the case - it is time for me to
move on as life is too short to spend time now trying to find and restore the images.
Off topic but relating to your earlier post concerning singer Renata Fusco. A more recent recording (October 2015) posted on YouTube of Renata
performing with the trio of Italian virtuosi musicians Massimo Lonardi, Matteo Mela and Lorenzo Micheli is well worth listening to - wonderful
interpretation of the music. My admiration for this singer and these musicians as a trio increases with time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmUsOMJqiO4
Good luck with your project.
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Thank you so much Jdowning
I will follow definitely like your advice.
I have a small bending iron. Do you think it's fine or rosewood need an even better hot iron?
definitely it will be a difficult!
the solution of the thin layers do not really like, only if I can not use the method of mounting the strips.
I thank you for the rest of your kind words.
Life is strange and unpredictable. I have started this project to realization of my oud because I needed something beautiful in my life that was going
wrong. My oud is like medicine for my soul!
thanks also to the Fusco link. I listen carefully.
good luck
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Another alternative for bending very tight curves in veneer is to soften the wood by chemical means. Five years ago I posted a series of experiments
with the quest to make deeply fluted ribs using a combination of a marinade of household chemicals and/or heat.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=8363&pa...
This topic has so far escaped any image losses past or present. I found that soaking woods in chemicals such as household ammonia and wood alcohol
resulted in sufficient softening so that they could easily be bent into tight curves. The trials included Indian rosewood samples that were the least
affected by chemical softening (and consequent cell distortion) but responded to being marinated then boiled in water. The attached graph shows the
experimental results from the trials.
It is a lot to read through and take in but you might find something useful there. At the end of the topic I also tested wood cold bending using
compression rolls that is an interesting technique.
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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very nice topic.
I had missed it.
you more than a luthier are a scientist!
I want to read it all very well because it's really interesting.
thanks for your sharing!
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Mike
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Unfortunately, there is nothing I or my hosting company can do to recover the lost images. It was not a purge, but rather something that went wrong
when they migrated the website from one platform to the other. I spent almost a week going back and forth with my hosting company's customer service,
and unfortunately we could not find a resolution. The database backups from earlier dates showed a zero value for the "pid" column of the database,
and we concluded that this was the problem. I am not going to try and fix that, as it would take countless days or weeks to do. Therefore, I suggest
putting your images on Flickr or tinypic, and then linking to them in your posts from now on. I may eventually turn off the attachments option for the
forums to encourage members to actually do that, as a purge is more than likely going to have to happen anyway due to the limit my hosting company
has.
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Mike Thanks for the clarification.
I'm sorry all this because it was convenient to see the pictures while reading the content of the post.
However, the last images I uploaded seem visible as before ...
I do not have to load them in future?
thank you
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Here is the topic about bending ribs using slip rolls that I mentioned previously. It still has the images intact at present and is not a long post so
best print a hard copy for your file if the wood compression technique is of interest. Of course without the images 'saving a thousand words' the text
alone would not make much sense!
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=11572#pid79...
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Thanks Jdowing
for the link ... did you got this technique from metal bending?
if I remember correctly you work very well metals too, this is the calendering method of pipes and iron beams !! ..
It is very interesting, but it takes a special equipment that has only those who work the iron as you.
verily, I am a structural engineer so I saw several times these machines in the blacksmith workshops ..
I obviously have nothing that even can look like this!
however, the wood is much more elastic and less hysteresis than the metal, thus I believe should be maintained in the form after the treatment,
otherwise without the heating of the fibers should quickly lose the deformation .. it's that correct?
thank you so much.
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Here is the link to the video that started the investigation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMdSyMlxrj0
The oud maker appears to be using the kind of hand cranked rolling mill used by jewelers to flatten bars of soft metals like silver and gold into thin
sheets. I used a small set of slip rolls instead because that is what I have in my tin shop. The cost of these machines (made in China) can be as low
as $200 for a small rolling mill and about $100 for a small slip roll. Of course, that outlay could only be justified if ouds were being mass produced
quickly on the scale seen in the video. There is no indication if the ouds being made in this manner are meant to be played or are just destined to
be 'wall hangers' for the tourist market.
I assume that compression of the wood cells introduces some overall elasticity to the wood (the cell walls buckling under compression like the bellows
of a concertina perhaps?). I did not undertake a macro examination of the compressed wood cells to verify if this was the case.
It is possible to produce wood that is so flexible that strips can be tied up when cold like pretzels. This is achieved by restraining a wood sample
from lateral expansion and then applying a high axial compression force to the longitudinal wood grain. However I doubt if this property of extreme
flexibility would have a practical application for luthiers except for veneer work where structural strength is not a consideration.?
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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...... and here for information is the company that makes compressed flexible wood - used for the structural parts of musical instruments!
http://www.puretimber.com/how-its-made/
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Beautiful ...
It seems rubber wood ..
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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... I decided that the decorations of the sound holes were too ugly and poorly made, so I cleaned up the ruts and I will do them again ...
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