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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Thankyou for your kind offer faggiuols. Checking with some YouTube postings about speaking Neapolitan dialect I can appreciate the difficulty!
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Now way off topic! - but as there are a few performances of traditional Neapolitan folk music now available on YouTube (not to be confused with later
pop compositions like 'Funiculi Funicula'!) this performance of folk songs 'Villanelle alla Napoletana' by soprano Renata Fusco accompanied by a group
directed by lutenist Massimo Lonardi may be of general interest. Of course I cannot understand one word of the songs but to my ear the sensitive and
beautiful voice of Renata Fusco is a good example of how music can transcend any language barrier.
Interestingly the Villanella/Villanesca folk song was also popular in Spain during the 16th/17th C - no surprise perhaps given the historical
political connection between Spain and the Kingdom of Naples - reflected also in the Neapolitan dialect, a mix of native Italian (Tuscan) and Spanish
(with a few other languages thrown in for good measure)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoOTUtIJ0S4
Back to oud building!
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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goodmornig Mr. Downing
I am Italian and I understand only half of the words .
Neapolitan language is not easy, but I understand those who love culture of Naples that is rich and wonderful.
the link "villanelles" the voice volume is too low and this increases the difficulty.
I did a search on the internet but could not find the lyrics even in Italian.
However, the CD was an annex to the classical music magazine Amadeus in December 2006. I buy this magazine since 1995. The numbers are many, and find
the CD in December 2006 will not be easy, but I'll try. so I'll see if in the CD there are the lyrics.
if I will be happy to send them to you.
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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I would very much appreciate receiving more information about the song titles and lyrics on the CD if you have the time.
I guess that an additional complication - as with all European languages - is that the language of the 16th/17th C will differ significantly from the
language of today.
I have not made a study of the Villanesca lyrics (Italian/Neapolitan) printed in the 16th C Spanish vihuela tablatures so it would be interesting to
see if any of the Villanelle recorded on the CD are among them. The Spanish/Portuguese had their own 16th/17th C rustic folk song tradition
(Villancicos) that also appear in the early vihuela books - the voice part in the tablature is printed in red - so fortunately the vihuelist can
perform the songs alone when there is otherwise no singer present.
I will contact you by email.
Thanks again.
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faggiuols
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some upgrade image ..
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Hello everyone
I'm starting to realize the soundboard.
I looked at many sites but I could not find rosettes (three rosettes) beautiful suit my oud.
generally in the rosette it is the signature of luthiers in Arabic and this allows me to use drawings found on the internet.
can anyone suggest me some files or some site.
thanks to anyone who will want to help me.
by
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
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Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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Alfaraby is the guy to talk to on that.
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Thanks Bulerias 1981
for your suggestion.
I hope Alfaraby write here.
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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some upgrade image on my slow work ..
if someone wants to answer to my previous post on the rosettes I'd be happy.
I'm starting the braces and correcting the inlay of the holes that have not come out very well.
thank you all
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SamirCanada
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hi Faggiuols,
before you start on the braces, I would advise you to reduce the thickness of your soundboard. Maybe this will afford you the opportunity to do your
inlays around the holes again if you whish.
I would aim to have the soundboard at just a touch about 2.3mm
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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If you wish you can also go ahead without the rosettes until you find a suitable pattern. A rosette may be designed so that it can be fitted and glued
into place after the sound board is installed. This is achieved by having a slot or open space in the rosette outer edge to allow the rosette to be
inserted - on its edge - through the open sound hole and into the bowl. The rosette will first have string attached so that it may - after insertion -
be pulled up into position and glued.
The procedure has been reported with images in an earlier thread but I cannot remember where - as I recall it was a topic first posted by forum member
Alfaraby?
Don't be concerned about working slowly - I still have instrument projects that are still only half completed after many years waiting. Life and other
priorities always get in the way! That is the great thing about not having to earn a living making instruments!
Looking good.
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suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
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I meet Samir advice. Don't hesitate to sand down your soundboard. Then it is a matter of taste, maybe you wish to achieve a stiff soundboard.
if you want something more reactive, go down in thickness. It depends also of the quality of the wood of the soundboard.
As an exemple, for mine I went to 1.8 mm .. but that is a short range to make the final cleaning of the soundboard once the work finish
For the rosette you have time, keep it open. It s even an advantage. Maybe at the end you wish to correct some things on the braces before gluing the
rosette. Some makers do that sometimes.
Keep on the good work, il looks great
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Here is the thread showing a rosette slotted to allow insertion after the soundboard is glued in place.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=12412
starting at post dated 10-28-2011
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada  | hi Faggiuols,
before you start on the braces, I would advise you to reduce the thickness of your soundboard. Maybe this will afford you the opportunity to do your
inlays around the holes again if you whish.
I would aim to have the soundboard at just a touch about 2.3mm |
hello Samir
the picture shows the soundboard before smoothing. now soundboard is about 2.3 mm.
I do not think I will inlays again. I will try to make some other corrections to those done.
Samir thanks !!
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
Registered: 9-10-2014
Location: cagliari sardegna italia
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| Quote: Originally posted by jdowning | If you wish you can also go ahead without the rosettes until you find a suitable pattern. A rosette may be designed so that it can be fitted and glued
into place after the sound board is installed. This is achieved by having a slot or open space in the rosette outer edge to allow the rosette to be
inserted - on its edge - through the open sound hole and into the bowl. The rosette will first have string attached so that it may - after insertion -
be pulled up into position and glued.
The procedure has been reported with images in an earlier thread but I cannot remember where - as I recall it was a topic first posted by forum member
Alfaraby?
Don't be concerned about working slowly - I still have instrument projects that are still only half completed after many years waiting. Life and other
priorities always get in the way! That is the great thing about not having to earn a living making instruments!
Looking good. |
Thanks Mr. Downing
for your valuable advice!
I agree nice to not have to live with what we love to do a lot, you can enjoy it to the fullest.
I saw the technique to insert the washer after gluing of the soundboard. As usual you have the solution to everything! it's nice to know you're there!
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
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Location: cagliari sardegna italia
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| Quote: Originally posted by suz_i_dil | I meet Samir advice. Don't hesitate to sand down your soundboard. Then it is a matter of taste, maybe you wish to achieve a stiff soundboard.
if you want something more reactive, go down in thickness. It depends also of the quality of the wood of the soundboard.
As an exemple, for mine I went to 1.8 mm .. but that is a short range to make the final cleaning of the soundboard once the work finish
For the rosette you have time, keep it open. It s even an advantage. Maybe at the end you wish to correct some things on the braces before gluing the
rosette. Some makers do that sometimes.
Keep on the good work, il looks great |
thanks suz_i_dil
I wondered how the thickness affects the sound ..
for example, according to the little that I know, if I decrease the thickness should be a sound more shrill and less sustain? it's right?
I want a warm sound, rich in harmonics and maybe even with a good sustain!
I want too .... but how would I reason with my table ..
today the thickness is 2.3-2.4mm .., still it lacks the final sanding and should reach around 2.0 - 2.1 ..
where I can find some guidance on the criteria for selecting the thickness?
the braces as they affect?
thank you very much to all and excuse my ignorance!
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
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here is a picture of the inlay of the holes.
I proceeded to a grouting to try to correct, but the result is still poor ..
I hope to make beautiful rosettes to look away from mistakes.
tomorrow maybe I post a picture sharper.
the small holes are still to be cut, will be larger. large hole instead is only to be finished.
thank you!
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Do not make the sound board too thin at this stage as you can always remove some material later but you cannot put it back on!
The chosen optimum thickness depends to some extent on the properties of the wood as it affects the stiffness of the sound board - thicker = stiffer
all else being equal. So in general a softer sound board in say cedar would be made a bit thicker than one of spruce, however, due to the range of
densities for each wood species (denser = harder) there could be some overlap of properties between wood species. Also the quality of the soundboard -
exactly quarter sawn, no spiral grain etc - are all factors that can significantly affect sound board stiffness and 'acoustic goodness'.
Usually the sound board will be made a bit thinner around the edges and with inlay banding to introduce a deliberate slight weakness at the edges to
help sound board vibration.
This - together with sound board bracing - is all in the realm of luthier 'black magic'. There are no hard and fast rules to guide you only experience
in building instruments! So just play it safe, follow an established bracing layout, construct as precisely as you can with minimal forcing of fit of
components and you will be pleased with the result.
The sound hole inlays look fine for a first attempt - better than some I have seen coming from small commercial shops.
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
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| Quote: Originally posted by jdowning | Do not make the sound board too thin at this stage as you can always remove some material later but you cannot put it back on!
The chosen optimum thickness depends to some extent on the properties of the wood as it affects the stiffness of the sound board - thicker = stiffer
all else being equal. So in general a softer sound board in say cedar would be made a bit thicker than one of spruce, however, due to the range of
densities for each wood species (denser = harder) there could be some overlap of properties between wood species. Also the quality of the soundboard -
exactly quarter sawn, no spiral grain etc - are all factors that can significantly affect sound board stiffness and 'acoustic goodness'.
Usually the sound board will be made a bit thinner around the edges and with inlay banding to introduce a deliberate slight weakness at the edges to
help sound board vibration.
This - together with sound board bracing - is all in the realm of luthier 'black magic'. There are no hard and fast rules to guide you only experience
in building instruments! So just play it safe, follow an established bracing layout, construct as precisely as you can with minimal forcing of fit of
components and you will be pleased with the result.
The sound hole inlays look fine for a first attempt - better than some I have seen coming from small commercial shops. |
thanks Jdowning
for your more precise descriptions.
having no experience (except for a guitar) will be like rolling the dice .. let's see what will come out!
to the next post!
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suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
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+1 for the answer John Downing made you.
I cannot be more informative being ignorant and beginner in building. But I developed my idea and taste by playing
Make it wise and you only be pleased by the result, and looking at the pictures you send you are on a good way to be pleased by the sound of your
oud
good luck, looking forward to see the following
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
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| Quote: Originally posted by suz_i_dil | +1 for the answer John Downing made you.
I cannot be more informative being ignorant and beginner in building. But I developed my idea and taste by playing
Make it wise and you only be pleased by the result, and looking at the pictures you send you are on a good way to be pleased by the sound of your
oud
good luck, looking forward to see the following |
thanks for your words suz_i_dil.
I am attaching the picture of soundboard with braces rough before modeling.
see you soon
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Greetings to all the friends of the forum.
I have a doubt about the best material to make the rosettes of my oud ..
alternatively also I find very elegant rosettes dark, so I was thinking to mahogany or cedar..
I want a white rosette, which wood do you recommend? which wood is also better for a beginner like me?
also they are still undecided on the design, but I do not know if I can post in the forum designs downloaded from the internet to show my favorite
designs and have you any suggestions ..
this is possible?
thank you all!
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
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Your soundboard is spruce right ? I did never made a rosette but I would take spruce wood because of its excellent tonal
characteristics. It even has a bright color mostly, not white but still nice, matches perfectly with the rest of the soundboard and it is soft. I
think mahogany or harder wood could be challenging to cut. More white but even more hard is maple. I also heard about multi layered rosettes but I
haven't got enough experience to advise on that 
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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jdowning
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The material of the rosette does not matter acoustically- as Hibari suggests choose a material that is easier to work for you - the harder, closer
grained the better for cutting - by fret saw - any finer, complex detail. Softer, easier to work materials for less complex patterns. Spruce would not
be a good choice unless, of course , you are following lute tradition by cutting the rosette directly into the sound board.The rosette pattern -
complex or simple - has little acoustical effect (air resonance frequency). I would avoid plastic or synthetic materials for the rosette - but that is
just my personal preference.
Multi layered rosettes are OK for baroque guitars but not ouds - unless you want to break with tradition!
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
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Thank you all for your contributions.
surely the plastic will never touch my oud!
So I think I'll stay in the two possibiilità: mahogany or cedar.
the problem is always to find the right pattern .. I have not chosen yet!
Today jamesissa2004 has posted images of an oud made by Nahat that حس very beautiful rosettes ... I do not mind find these designs! does
anyone know where I can find them?
unfortunately the photo distorts the image and you can not use the photos!
if someone can help me in this I will be very grateful to him! even something like this will be fine ...
thanks to all in advance
I attach the image
[file]37482[/file]
of course I know that the center is the signature of the luthier and therefore that part would be to draw new ..
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