Blankoid
Oud Admirer
Posts: 6
Registered: 10-20-2014
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Advice for beginner purchase (coming from classical guitar)
Hi all,
I'm new to this forum, although I've been browsing for some time now and learning much. I've been interested in purchasing my first oud for a long
time now, but I didn't want to start a thread until I could specify most clearly what I am interested in finding.
I live in South Florida, and I haven't found any local resources, so it looks like I will have to blindly order with only advice to guide my
decision.
My budget is around $1000 at its highest. Now I have a background in classical guitar, and some familiarity with flamenco guitar, but when it comes to
the subtleties and nuances between an arabic and turkish oud I'm a novice. Ultimately, I am not specifically looking for one or the other. Rather,
I prefer to find the most legitimate instrument in my price range, one that is guaranteed to last long with relatively good sound and projection.
Whether it be Arabic or Turkish, I will adapt. Quality is most important.
The following have popped up in these forums often:
1. Maurice Shehata Aseel ($950)
2. Sukar 211 or 213 (I'm somewhat confused as to which is supposed to be better)
3. Bulent Eryalmen (I emailed him, still waiting on response)
4. Sandi VMIU-50 (from ebay, the prices on this model vary)
Otherwise I am at a loss as to where to search. I've heard positive reviews about Turunz ouds, but they are somewhat above my price range. I would
only save up for one if the community felt that the additional 300 dollars was more than worth the difference in quality.
Please, share your insights, and thanks very much in advance. If you can recommend anything else please do so. I really appreciate any help!
(also, last question, but how much does the number of sound holes affect the sound? and in what way? Thanks again!)
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ameer
Oud Junkie
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Check with Najib Shaheen ( http://www.oudman.com )
He's based in New York and has a variety of ouds for sale at any given moment.
Also keep an eye on the used market, some great stuff pops up here from time to time.
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Blankoid
Oud Admirer
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Registered: 10-20-2014
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Thanks, I will contact him. Any notable names I should keep my eyes open for on the used market?
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Gocauo
Oud Maniac
Posts: 64
Registered: 8-22-2014
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No valuable input as I am also new (with *no* background)...just saying 'hello' to another Floridian (I'm up near Tampa Bay).
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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Registered: 6-4-2004
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first off, welcome to our community man.
my advise is to do some searching and reading on this forum and see the type of sound you like. Shehata ouds, sukar ouds are both reputable makers of
arabic ouds while the other makers are specialized in turkish ouds. Mind you Faruk Turunz also makes arabic tuned ouds.
read up on the differences and youtube some videos on the makers to make your mind up.
I have owned several Shehata ouds and sukar ouds, there is a big difference but in terms of sound and playability I have to give the edge to Maurice's
ouds, they are well setup and are easy to play. I find sukar ouds are decent sounding but you need to hit the strings pretty hard for his ouds to come
alive.
if you want a turkish oud, I will let my colleagues who are more versed in those to weigh in.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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Blankoid
Oud Admirer
Posts: 6
Registered: 10-20-2014
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Hey Gocauo  .
And thanks for the advice ameer and SamirCanada. Happy to finally be in this forum. I've decided after a lot of listening and research that I'd rather
focus on Turkish oud, although I really love the Arabic ouds as well. (Am I mistaken in thinking that Turkish ouds are more commonly played in
Flamenco? Also, am I mistaken in my assumption that Turkish music allows for more harmonic playing then Arabic?)
I've also realized that my price range is actually closer to $850 max, including shipping. These 2 VMIU-50's by Sandi look tempting: VMIU-50 with mother of pearl inlay
and VMIU-50 without inlay. I can't find many recordings of them, but I've heard good things about the quality.
Does anybody know why they are priced differently? Is it purely cosmetic? I'm not quite sure what I should expect from the respective woods (Makassar
and Paduk resp.).
Otherwise, can anyone suggest Turkish ouds in this price range? I assure you I've spent my time researching, but there seems to be much more
information available concerning Arabic ouds than Turkish. (Maybe I'm just not good at navigating the internet haha). Again, all advice is highly
appreciated. Thanks
EDIT: spelling
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hans
Oud Junkie
Posts: 184
Registered: 5-6-2014
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Hi blankoid! I have a vmiu 50 with so called mother of pearl inlay, which is actually plastic. 4 months after purchase i flew to istanbul to get a
ramazan calay. I strongly advise you to wait until you have a bit more money, the difference is very much worth it.now and then there is a second hand
calay or dimitris rapakousios or a turunz. The wood in the bowl is not important, it is the wood of the soundboard that counts
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hans
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 5-6-2014
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Actually, my sandi is exactly the same as the one in your link. But look around in the states as well, because shipping and import tax may add quite a
bit to the price
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 11-5-2011
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I don't think oud is used enough in flamenco or flamenco influenced music to make a reliable generalization. Most of the occasional use I've seen
these days of oud in Flamenco has been an Arabic oud played by musicians with Arab names. I did see one Turkish oud used in a music synthesis video
that contained flamenco elements. Also the oud players of the mid 20th century, such as Farid Ghosn, who composed flamenco-influenced music, were
not Turkish and did not play Turkish ouds.
Some maqam-s in both Turkish and Arabic tradition lend themselves to harmonization. In my opinion this does not happen more in Turkish music.
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hans
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 5-6-2014
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I should think that andalusian music on the oud is mostly played in morocco, where they play mostly arabic ouds (an effort to add to jody's text :-))
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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You say that you are not particularly concerned with whether to get a Turkish or Arabic oud . . . this makes me wonder—why are you interested in the
oud? I would think that if you are interested in the oud, it is because you have heard players or recordings that made you interested. In which case,
you should evaluate which ones most speak to you personally, because the choice matters whether you realize it or not.
If you are intrigued by Hamza el Din, Simon Shaheen, Taseer Elias, Farid el Atrash, etc. then you want an Arabic oud. If you are attracted to Necati
Celik, Yurdal Tokcan, Udi Hrant, etc. then you should look at a Turkish (or Greek or Armenian) oud.
FWIW, I do think that Turunz is more than worth the price difference compared to many Sandi ouds, if you have to generalize and buy it without trying
it. There are other good makers like Cengiz Sarikus to consider, though.
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Blankoid
Oud Admirer
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Registered: 10-20-2014
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Hey again everyone.
Brian, I can see how I was unclear about what I'm looking for. I was originally attracted to the oud through Arabic music, and while I don't claim to
know much I've definitely listened to far more hours of Arabic playing than Turkish. Only in the last year have I explored Turkish playing more
attentively. What I meant was that I would be willing to venture into either (and ideally both someday). You must understand how hard it is to commit
to one or the other when you are very interested in both and have few resources locally to guide you. Because of this, I decided to let my budget
decide for me. With guitar, I would sooner take a high quality flamenco over a mid quality classical and change my direction accordingly.
That being said, I decided to order the Shehata. Mike has already contacted me with regards to the shipping, and as I told him I knew that eventually
I would have to just commit to a purchase only semi-informed, otherwise I would take another year jumping back and forth haha. Thanks everyone for
your recommendations, and for all the useful information on these forums in general. I'll let you know how it goes .
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conroystoptime
Oud Maniac
Posts: 59
Registered: 2-22-2012
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It's an exaggeration, perhaps, to say that the Arabic oud and the Turkish oud are as different from each other as the guitar and the banjo. But they
are different enough that one might consider them distinct musical instruments. These differences are primarily the result of the differences in size
(Turkish ouds tend to have a significantly smaller bowl as well as a shorter string length) and bracing. The Arabic oud is usually much more
bass-heavy and "earthy" whereas the Turkish oud is almost always punchier and treblier.
The difference between the two oud types' sound will probably affect your playing and technique, too. There are exceptions of course, but most Turkish
oud players favor a softer, more flexible risha. Right-hand and left-hand techniques vary between the Turkish school and the Arabic school, and while
any good Turkish oud player would sound good on an Arabic oud, and vice versa, instrument choice will inevitably affect your playing strategies.
What Brian said makes sense: listen to enough recordings that you understand the difference between Turkish and Arabic oud tone, and if you find
yourself more strongly inclined toward one than the other, follow your instinct and make your purchase.
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Blankoid
Oud Admirer
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Registered: 10-20-2014
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EDIT: deleted because I was a bit defensive and reactive. Thank you for your input, Brian and conroytimestop. I agree and would advise a guitarist the
same way if I felt they needed more familiarity. I've spent much more time listening to Arabic performers, and while it is never easy to choose I feel
confidence in my purchase. Thanks again.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Blankoid, I'm glad to hear that you and Mike worked something out on a Shehata. They are well-made and I hope you are happy with your purchase. Your
clarification makes sense, and I think you will ultimately probably end up wanting (at least) one of each style oud. Considering that you were
originally attracted to Arabic music, you probably were wise to go with an Arabic oud for now.
But we weren't just blindly assuming that you didn't understand the differences, we were going by what you said:
Going by the typical newcomer to oud, as well as personal experience, it is usually takes quite a while to appreciate the depth of the difference
between the two traditions (not just the instruments—ultimately I think it is the actual musical tradition that is the determinant and not the tonal
quality of the instrument, which just serves the music). So please don't take offense at our comments, it wasn't a personal judgment in any way.
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Blankoid
Oud Admirer
Posts: 6
Registered: 10-20-2014
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I should really work on my clarity here haha. I just want to mention that yes, I really don't know the nuanced differences, but when I say this I mean
that just as someone may listen enough to recognize the difference and have a fairly developed sense between flamenco guitar and classical guitar, or
the difference between Baroque and Classical music, they cannot learn the finer details and subtleties without some hands on involvement. And of
course here I have none myself in regards to these musical styles. I don't claim to know the depth of the difference by any means, but I have listened
enough to have some basic awareness of the musical traditions and their distinctions.
I remember being somewhat paralyzed when I was younger by a decision I had to make between classical and jazz guitar lessons. I had spent some time
doing elementary things in each, and was listening a lot to both. But they are very different disciplines, and ultimately my decision amounted to a
flip of the coin. I ended up happy, and I'm sure I would've ended up happy in a different way had I made the other choice.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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That is a good attitude!
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