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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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GREAT Sounding Greek/Syrian Oud
σολο ? عود
Is it Greek ?
This what I call a rich full-fat sound !
Do you know anything about this oud ?
Each time I undergo an intensive, concentrated aggressive oud-rehab treatment, comes an OUD like this and quickly knocks me off.
I'm heading to the port 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZbvAHCMO30
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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Maybe Spyros can tell us, this old man playing is nikos saragoudas who is his teacher.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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Mehran
Oud Junkie
Posts: 210
Registered: 4-27-2006
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Speaking of unrecognisable greek ouds, there is this beauty which has always caught the attention of my eyes and ears!
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1353
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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And KP plays oud herself here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhToqy69s_w
then there's *this* mystery oud. he starts to play at 6:48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7G4VttkZjM
see images below:
[img][/img]
[file]33503[/file] [file]33505[/file]
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spyrosc
Oud Junkie
Posts: 405
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Location: Northern California, USA
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According to the greek caption this oud is a Syrian 1910 (no known maker) repaired/serviced by Dimitri Rapakoussios (the well known young Greek
luthier). The oud came to Greece from Egypt, by a Greek who bought it originally in Smyrna from a Turk. (ouds travel a lot, somebody should write the
story of these ouds).
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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This is a close-up of the same oud:
http://youtu.be/JLkwR7VgBes
My friend Karim Othman-Hassan, who's an expert in antique ouds, thinks it might be Shukri Almolqi's oud !
I tend to believe it's not. It's more Manol than Syrian.
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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spyrosc
Oud Junkie
Posts: 405
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Location: Northern California, USA
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With all due respect to Alfaraby's undoubted expertise, there are questions. The pickguard is not Manol and the shamsiya is not Manol. The Shamsiya
reminds Syrian / Lebanese. And the majority of Manols have 3 soundholes.
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Spyros dear,
I have declared more than once that I have no idea about Manol's ouds, since there are no Manols around here. I just said "more Manol than Syrian" and
I meant my friend's guess it might be Molqi's oud.
Anyhow, it's a great oud which I thought it's Greek, while you taught me it is not.
Could anybody contact the owner and/or check this oud ?
Thank you
Mehran dear, I'd dare and guess that the "beauty" might be Michel Khawwam's oud from Aleppo.
Here are two of mine which look like your "beauty". It is a real beauty indeed.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=14474#pid98...
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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spyrosc
Oud Junkie
Posts: 405
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Location: Northern California, USA
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Dear Alfaraby, don't be humble. You are a renowned expert and I certainly I'm not.
But the Shamsiya is in Arabic and I'm trying to read it. The bottom word ends in Lam so it might not be Almolqi. I know I have seen the pattern
before but of course many ouds from Al Sham have similar patterns. The fact that it has only a Shamsiya and no Qamariyas may indicate a pretty old
age.
It would be interesting as you say to see if Dimitris in Athens remembers when he repaired it if he saw the label.
Our other Spyro (Mesogeia) was a pupil of Saragoudas (the old man who plays it and one of the owners of the oud) and he might approach him easier.
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
Posts: 763
Registered: 4-26-2009
Location: Beacon, NY
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Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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Wheres Mav when we need him!?!?
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ALAMI
Oud Junkie
Posts: 643
Registered: 12-14-2006
Location: Beirut
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A French proverb says: "comparaison n'est pas raison" so there is no proof here, just a "family" look, those ouds may be cousins: the single hole, the
beard, the shape, the inlays etc..., the second was seriously restored so we don't know how it looked before restoration (unless Dimitris took
photos)
The old one is a 1892 made by (the totally mysterious) Arja Brothers in Tripoli Lebanon.
I believe too that the mysterious oud is probably Syrian/Lebanese
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
Posts: 763
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Location: Beacon, NY
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Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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similiar, but not the same. Alami, who owns the Al Arja Brothers oud?
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ALAMI
Oud Junkie
Posts: 643
Registered: 12-14-2006
Location: Beirut
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Agree, that's why am calling them cousins, may be to the area North of Tripoli, Homs or Aleppo
I am the lucky owner of the Arja, a real gem.
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
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Mood: big band envy
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Hi guys,
Wow, what a gorgeous tone and projection in this oud.
About the oud's maker, I can't add any more than Spyros already mentioned, other than I don't think this looks like something by Venios (Manol).
Dimitris Rapakousios knows Venios (Manol) ouds very well, and he wouldn't miss his handiwork on an instrument he restored.
Most likely the label will reveal everything. Anyone tried to contact the owner via youtube?
Alami your Arja looks beautiful.
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 578
Registered: 1-10-2009
Location: Norway
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Mood: Curious
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Totally agree With ALAMI!
And there is no doubt that the finger Board is a restoration (not original)..
And I can swear that i have seen this pick guard before..
The only thing that is bothering me is the pegbox. If it is original, this oud cannot be lebanese or syrian..
P.s. ALAMI.. miss you man!!
The wood might be dead, but the oud is alive.
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suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1061
Registered: 1-10-2008
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Hello
i get in touch with the owner via youtube.
here is the story of the oud he told me about and it's actual state:
" The constructor of this oud is a mystery for me. I have upload here a video with this oud, played by my teacher Nikos Saragoudas, who sold me
the oud (I am a little tall and the teacher said me: "this oud is constructed for you!", because it's a big one). He told me that it's a syrian oud
and he has bought it by a greek player name "Babalios", who came from Smyrna. Babalios had told to my teacher that when he lived in Smyrna (it is in
Minor Asia-Turkey), one night he was listening from the upper floor a Turkish playing this oud. He find the sound amazing and told immediately to the
Turkish player "Do you sell it?" He gave a certain amount of money and got it. Then Babalios came to Greece and he was going to see my teacher many
times, holding this oud. My teacher loved the oud and wanted to buy it. Babalios sold him the oud, since my teacher Nikos Saragoudas is considered an
oud legend in Greece (he had visited Turkey and Egypt in the past for many times, seeing Farid El Atrash and other great players, but he considers the
Syrian Halepi as the "source" of the oud, that is what he always tells me).When I bought this oud, it had several problems. I did not know any special
oud constructor and a friend that played bouzouki knew a bouzouki constructor from Peiraeus (near Athens) and I gave the oud to him for repairing. He
repaired it, but he placed the chords with a bouzouki-like position (the chords were almost parallels). So I gave again the oud for repair to Dimitri
Rapakousios, who is among the best oud constructors. Dimitri told me that this oud has been made about 1910! I didn't know that it was so old. It's a
syrian oud and it has an arabic inscription inside, but, as Dimitri told me, the oud maker is not well known. Now the brace, where the chords are
tied, has broken and I gave it for repair to another know greek constructor, Petros Zaranis. He told me that the brace was too loose and even if he
repair it with a special glue, it will break again. So I proposed him to tie the chords not in the brace, but at the edge of the oud, like the iraqi
ones. He agreed and now i am waiting for the repair (it will take some time, in 2015 I suppose...) "
Our fellow oudist told me I can share the whole story with the forum. I give him my point of view on this repair attended, and I think you will have
also many reactions about.
After he get back the oud, we should get some more informations about, like a label or rosette picture
Our fellow friend tried to subscribe to mikeoud's but seems there are problems for new memberships, so I give him advice to get directly in touch with
Mike, webmaster
All the best
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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What a Via Dolorosa this unfortunate oud has known ! The crossification shall be for sure this last planned restoration Iraqi style. OMG ! Pleas not.
Anyone who can contact Mr. Petros Zaranis is asked to tell him not to slaughter this masterpiece.
Marouan dear, please ask the owner to stop this massacre before it's too late.
Thank you
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1061
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Jameel dear..of course I told him so, but with less eloquence of yours, which I'm missing in english !
I send him an email with all elements to explain the disaster it would turn.
Truely yours
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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It reminds me of Michel Khawwam's (Aleppo, 1941) here :
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/files.php?pid=98388&aid=29...
Does it not ?
Thank you
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1353
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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I'm thinking that the one in the video is even more flat at the bottom of the "almond" shape of the soundboard. But maybe not.
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suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1061
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I had an email from the owner: our elderly patient is safe and will benefit if a fix bridge prothesis.!
More to follow when we'll get pictures helping to know the maker
Regards
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nikosthe
Oud Admirer
Posts: 3
Registered: 2-15-2015
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News for the oud
Dear oud friends from all over the world, greetings from Greece! I am so glad to beeing able, finally, to communicate with you. My name is Nikos and I
am the owner of the syrian oud you are talking about. I had writing to Marouan (suz_i_dil) the story of the oud and my intention to change the bridge,
which was unstuck. That was good, since, fortunately, I read your comments about my plans and decided not to implement them. So I told the craftsman
to stuck the bridge only and restore the oud to its previous situation. He finally did a good job, since he created a layer of shavings (if I
understood him well) to cover the many puddles of the wood, so the surface became smooth and the bridge seems to be well stuck now. The sound of the
oud is the same you hear in the video, nothing has changed (well, I am not so enthusiast as you for this sound, it may be unique, it's not bad for
sure but I am used to it, since I hear it playing this oud for many years and cannot appreciate it as you do).
The reason I am writing now is because you asked for more photos and especially for inside photos, to read the arab inscription into the instrument.
Now that the patient is healthy, as Marouan said, and I am healthy too (and not... assassined by mike's oud forum members for oud crucifixion!  ), I can present the instrument more thoroughly! So I took photos with my mobile
phone and I put the phone near the rosette, to take photos from the inscription. I believe that it can be read clearly from anyone native arab
speaker. So, here are the photos. I am waiting news for the experts, to discover more about this instrument, how old is it and maybe the
constructor.
     
  
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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GREAT !
It's a surprise ! Not Greek, but Syrian.
The label (and the rosette) says:
Work of Khaleel Ma'atouq, Damascus, Syria
25 November, 1910
Number 245
Unfortunately, I can't say I have heard his name before !
My contacts in Damascus said they've seen 2-3 oud of his, during the last 25 years. They were good, They'd say, but nothing special.
This reminded me of Mohammad Abdel Wahab when asked about a new singer. He used to say: he's good, but not important
Is this the case here ? I don't know !
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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nikosthe
Oud Admirer
Posts: 3
Registered: 2-15-2015
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Thanks for the information! So this oud is definitely old, a 1910 construction, from the Syrian constructor Khaleel Ma'atouq and has a great sound,
according to you. I didn't know I had such an instrument. But, to be honest, I prefer the sound of the new ouds, iraqi or Abadi's ones. Maybe you,
guys, you have played much this sound and you appreciate this old instrument, me, that I have played much this old sound, I would like more something
new...
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
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I am sure you could trade it with Abadi himself
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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