Oud.Proff
Oud Junkie
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Copyrighted Om Kulthoum Songs, even on Oud !!!?
Hello everyone,
Hope you're all fine.
I've been uploading renditions of several songs on YouTube, particularly those of Om Kulthoum.
However, I was recently surprised that YouTube removed one of the videos (Om Kalthoum Song on OUD أغنية أم
كلثوم/بعيد عنك على العود ) due
to CopyRight issue !! I clearly explained that this is just a rendition of the song's music on my personal oud, but that didn't seem to work !
Below is part of the case filed by the "plaintiff" !:
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"....The Claimant Company was astonished as the Notified party created an account (page) on the YouTube international site by the name "Oud Proff"
including several artistic works, e.g. the following audiovideos:
Song: Bi'i dt' Anik Bi
lyricist: Maamoun El Shenawy
Composer: Baligh Hamdy
Electronic address: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl7DS1xsyxs
As the above audio-video works are owned with all its elements including lyrics, composition, performance and related rights by the Claimant Co. by
virtue of authenticated official certificates and contracts, hence they enjoy legal protection and may not be third party in any manner without
written approval from the Claimant Company according to Articles 147 and 149 of Law no. 82/2002 concerning the intellectual ownership rights
protection And since the Notified Party uploaded these audio-video works in his account
by the name "Oud Proff" on YouTube international site and he exploits them unjustifiably, contrary to the Law,
accordingly,
I, the above – mentioned bailiff, proceeded to the domicile of the Notified Party at and delivered to him a copy of the foregoing. I ordered him to
attend before Cairo Economic Court, located at Al Mearag City, beginning of the Ring Road, beside Carrefour Maadi, Cairo Governorate, in its session
which will be held in public as from 9 am and afterword of Tuesday, February 24, 2015 before circuit 5 appellate, to hear the ruling of his
non-entitlement to exploit the audio-video works mentioned in this citation in any manner and
deletion thereof from his account "Oud Proff" on YouTube international site, together with compelling him to effect payment of expenses and council's
fees.
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I have not talked to my lawyer yet about this, but shall do soon.
Any thoughts !!!??
Thanks
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SamirCanada
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Oh man... that's crazy. I wonder about all the youtube "covers" people do of other artists... are they also in infringement?
Under no circumstances should you travel to Egypt to fight this because I have it in first hand experience in my personal family history that the
Egyptian court system is very corrupted. (I am sure I am not telling you anything new). Perhaps you can hire a lawyer with good connections to the
system but is it worth it?
here is an interesting article:
http://www.cleverjoe.com/articles/music_copyright_law.html
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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rootsguitar
Oud Junkie
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Hey Happy New Year,
I'm a fan of your channel on youtube & your musical skills are great to watch w all the close ups.
All the work archived there makes for a great resource to anyone interested in the oud.
One feature youtube offers is that by clicking on " enhancements " you can trim a video & still leave it up.
Not sure if this is a solution for that clip but perhaps cutting off a few seconds in the beginning would have made a difference.
Either way I hope you continue to produce new music for us all to enjoy!
--- best regards
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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From Wikipedia, Egyptian copyright law:
" on 17 February 1941, the Criminal Chamber of Cassation, Mixed Court of Appeal, ruled that performance of a song or musical composition, without the
authorization of the author or composer, was considered as an offence punishable under Article 351 of the Penal Law."
"Literary and artistic protection were dealt with for the first time by Egyptian law in 1954, with the promulgation of Law No. 354 of 1954 on the
Protection of Copyright.[3] Article 20 of the law provided for a term of protection of 50 years after the author's death, "
They have updated the law since then but it seems that the guiding rule is still 50 years after the death of the composer.
These are the rights to the composition, regardless of who is performing it, which are different than sound recording rights.
Sound recording rights are different, I am fairly certain the the sound recordings of Oum Kulthoum are in the public domain now based on Egyptian
law. However, the rights to the compositions are still retained by the composers' families.
I am not sure if they have mechanical rights similar to the US and Europe. However, mechanical rights are not "synch" rights, which are necessary for
any video performance. Essentially, any video performance of others' material without securing a license is a copyright violation. Licenses can be
as low as a few dollars if it is really only a personal video. However, given your activities teaching and selling ouds, you would likely not fall
into that category. Fines for violations are punitive and generally very high (like tens of thousands of dollars). A judge in a case against a file
sharing service famously noted that the statutory damages sought (which were just the maximum fines based on the law) literally amounted to more than
all the money in the world. Youtube benefits from a "safe harbor" provision in US law that says that user-generated videos are not violations by the
service as long as the take them down quickly when notified. This means that Youtube assumes that all notices of violation are true and that it is up
to you to prove that you have the right to keep the video up.
| Quote: | | I clearly explained that this is just a rendition of the song's music on my personal oud, but that didn't seem to work ! |
Your defense did not work because it is not a defense against what you have been accused of. You just admitted to doing what you were accused of. A
defense would be a proof that you wrote the music, that you had purchased a license for the music, or that the music was public domain.
You could possibly claim that the video was for educational purposes, if Egypt copyright law allows for such a "fair use" defense, but I wouldn't
count on it.
The complaint has a few dubious things about it:
1- it doesn't mention your real name. How can they sue you without knowing your name? Would youtube give them your real name? Does youtube even know
your real name?
2- it says they hand-delivered you notice of the lawsuit at your house. Is that true? If not, it seems like something fishy.
3- The complainant refers to himself as a "bailiff" -- it is not clear, this would imply he his an officer of the court.
Regardless, it seems like you should talk to a lawyer if you can. Otherwise, avoid Egypt.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this . . . it seems ridiculous to go to these lengths to punish such a minor offense. A warning should be adequate
unless you are making lots of money off of it or refuse to comply with their wishes.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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It seems the company that claims ownerships is "starts for arts production", which is based in Dubai and has an office in Egypt.
http://companydetails.net/5634556-stars-for-art-production.html
http://www.ftaarea.com/company-details-131/1279180.html
The following google search shows many other videos they have blocked, perhaps you could contact some of these people and work together.
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Stars+F...
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
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I had a similar issue with an incredibly obscure song by Roza Eskenazi originally recorded a long, long time ago. Apparently CD Baby "owns" it and
youtube insisted I take it down. I think the reason any attention was paid to it was that I had it set up for paid play/advertising, otherwise I doubt
they would have given me trouble.
I don't think you will have any luck in this issue, unfortunately, as the song I re-recorded was all but forgotten by most (I don't think anyone else
has recorded it since the first 78rpm), yet they still came after me.
It's an upside-down world for sure.
m
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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Mav, the likely thing is that someone released the song on CDBaby and assigned CDBaby the right to collect royalties. It's unusual that they would
insist that you take it down, the standard option is that you take it down or allow them to monetize it on behalf of the rights holder.
From what I can tell, Roza Eskenazi lived until 1980 so it will be some time before her works are in the public domain, assuming that she or her
management or publisher were reasonably diligent.
This sort of thing is one of the reasons why our copyright laws need to be reformed . . . there are a lot of orphan works of cultural value that
should have a more straightforward procedure for usage. I'm sure Eskanazi would have preferred people playing and communicating through her music to
having it blocked.
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Oud.Proff
Oud Junkie
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My dears, SamirCanada, Brian and Mav,
Thanks a lot for your informative feedback.
You're quite right Brian, as my lawyer said too, I could've just indicated to them that this kind of music (original song, renditions....etc.) have
been overly and "publicly" posted by other official networks. And yes, Brian they are "Stars for Arts Production", and it seems to me that YouTube
(well Google...) chose not to go through any headaches and went for a shortcut by taking the video down (as seen in the attached pic).
In the past, I replied by indicating that one of the songs (also happened to be of Om Kulthoum) was already posted overly by other TV networks (e.g.,
Rotana) and I sent them the links. That seemed to work indeed.
I sure have overlooked that issue. The thing is, I chose NOT to monetize ANY of my videos, so that shouldn't be the issue there.
At the end Mav, as you nicely indicated, we're just trying to revive some of the classical and eternal tones back to life, especially in this hectic
world, that's all ! 
My lawyer suggested I give 'em a call, but you know what.....heck.... I'm not gonna !
I thank everybody again for sharing your insights.
[file]34075[/file]
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mjamed
Oud Junkie
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hi everyone,
am facing the exact issue here? I've posted a number songs for um kalthoom, i was playing the oud, my friends were playing the drums and they took
them down ?
am frustrated ? what do you suggest?
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Jaffa Road
Oud Maniac
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Registered: 1-30-2011
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Very interesting discussion, I think you should call them ( I realize in your last post you said you wont).
This kind of thing (especially when not monetized) should really be considered fair use, and it would be most interesting to see what would happen
should you try to converse with them, human to human.
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suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
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Had something similar with a copyright claim from a Turkish company for a mesut cemil bey samay.
an automatic claim and saying they may monetized the video with advertisement in the interest of the Turkish company.
Was surprised,really thought from years those composition belong to public domain (Mesut Cemil Bey passed away in 1963). Seems the French law
protects the copyright for inheritants up to 70 years.
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Jaffa Road
Oud Maniac
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I guess it varies from country to county but I always understood that public domain status begins 50 or 75 years after the death of the author (
depending on country)
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