alchemy
Oud Maniac
Posts: 57
Registered: 11-30-2014
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Member Is Offline
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Problem: Oud Soundboard Sank
Hi guys, I write to ask you about this problem I had. I'm sorry to present you my baby in this terms... But I just came back of a trip just to find
the oud having this issue in its case.
The soundboard sank to the inside on one of the sides. The edging was already looking detached since I bought it 7 months ago and seemed it wasn't
going to move any further... until now. I attach some pictures of it; the first 3 (oud-1, oud-2, oud-3) are related to the problem itself, and the
other 3 (oud-4, oud-5, oud-6) are of other, possibly related, things that were there when I bought it.
I would like to ask you, do you have any diagnostic of the problem? What could generate it? Which parts are involved? What would be required to fix
it? Is there any indication of any possible future problems?
I will be taking it to a luthier, but since where I live very few people know the instrument, I want to already have a clear picture in my mind
beforehand.
Thank you very much in advance!
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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I don't know, that looks pretty bad. I don't think I've ever seen that kind of separation before. Hopefully the luthiers here will have some
constructive advice. It's a nice-looking oud though, who is the maker?
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
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I haven't seen this before either...
How hot did it get in that case?! its summer in Argentina now so it can be quite hot and it could be the issue. Almost looks like the hide glue failed
and that the rib has sprung back to a natural position that is away from the soundboard in this area.
Also could be a humidity issue. what's the relative humidity in your place the past few weeks?
Here is how I would do it, the rosette will have to be removed to gain access to the inside of the instrument. I would add a 4-5 inch piece of
kerffing as is done in classical guitars in that area along the rib under the top. New hide glue will need to be prepared and applied to the bindings
and that kerffing. tape everything tight together and let the glue cure. The bottom crack can be filled with glue also but I suspect you have issues
with humidity in your place.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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alchemy
Oud Maniac
Posts: 57
Registered: 11-30-2014
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Member Is Offline
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SamirCanada: I leaved it in the case as usual. According to weather website, the average humidity for january has been around 64%,
but the average seems to have raised to around 70% (if not more) in the last days. It's 84% now. From speaking with some luthiers in the past, I've
been told that much humidity is not as bad as much dryness. Can high humidity cause these kind of damages as well?
Thank you very much!
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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Depends on the heat . . . hot and humid can cause glue to fail. Dryness can cause wood to crack.
While typical ambient heat isn't normally enough to cause glue to fail, if it was left in the sun (even in the case) it could have gotten hot enough.
Or if there was something wrong with the glue to begin with . . .
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Mood: No Mood
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A nice looking oud but in my opinion the damage may be due to the main brace ends (on each side of the sound hole), for whatever reason, completely
separating on the bass side from the ribs of the bowl allowing the sound board to sink in that area. This is a weakness also of full depth sound board
edge banding (compared to half depth banding where the sound board edges are uncompromised) In fact the whole sound board to bowl joint appears to be
poorly executed - just look at the cosmetic 'filler' in image 4.
Best to remove the sound board entirely, repair and refit - nothing can be done about the full depth banding that will always remain as a potential
structural weakness. Perhaps a paper reinforcement under the decorative edging might be beneficial?
An oud should, of course, be built to withstand the extremes of normal environmental conditions - dryness being more destructive than high humidity in
this respect. Hide glue is quite forgiving in accommodating humidity/temperature cycles but modern synthetic glues like PVA are not in my experience.
Perhaps the latter glues were used in this case - just to further complicate the issue?
Good luck
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Matthias
Oud Junkie
Posts: 473
Registered: 1-24-2007
Location: Badenweiler, Germany
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Mood: No Mood
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Hello,
High humidity is the climate factor which causes only small damages, but in this case it may have been caused, that the hide glue has been weekened
and more than one bar got loose from the rib. That was the start of this problem
All in all jdowning is completely right and I woud have said the same seeing that post before. And really the situation shown in pic 4 is really bad.
That must be reinforced from the inside in opening the instrument.
But I discovered another thing which I marked in the attached pic. Alchemy, please check it and let us know. I see minimum 3 hair cracks which I
marked. That means that weather the instrument has been kept in a dry place or the case with the instrument has ben in the sun or a car in the sun.
In that case it can happen very quickly cracks appear.
a second reason for the cracks can be that too fresh wood has been used to make the instrument.
best regards
Matthias
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alchemy
Oud Maniac
Posts: 57
Registered: 11-30-2014
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Member Is Offline
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Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka  | | I don't know, that looks pretty bad. I don't think I've ever seen that kind of separation before. Hopefully the luthiers here will have some
constructive advice. It's a nice-looking oud though, who is the maker? |
The maker is Waled Maarouf, according to my teacher (no label inside). He told me it's a friend of him not so well known.
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alchemy
Oud Maniac
Posts: 57
Registered: 11-30-2014
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Member Is Offline
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Matthias: seems you're right. I tried to see the problem by looking in between the separation with a light and the brace at that
point seems unglued. I'm still awaiting for a luthier, that many people highly recommended to me, to come back from his vacations. He seems to know
very well about materials and construction of old lutes. Have to see if he knows about the oud.
On the other hand, related to the problem you pointed out, I see those hair lines on the soundboard, not sure which of those is related to the cut of
the pieces, and which is a crack. Do you suggest to replace the soundboard or what?
Thanks!
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