John Erlich
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IDEA: Facebook Page for "Concert Pitch" Ottoman/Turkish Music Sheets Sharing
Greetings Fellow Oud Fanatics,
I've found about a dozen Arabic Facebook pages whose main purpose is posting & sharing Arabic music sheets. (Great resource!)
I know that there are a good number of us udis who are Arab, Arabic-style players, Western-trained musicians, or others who love Turkish and/or
Ottoman music, but have difficult reading Turkish music transcriptions because the convention of transposing the music up a 5th from concert pitch.
Also, keys can also be a bit of a challenge, with Turkish ud tuning typically a whole step of Arabic oud tuning.
QUESTION: Is there interest among Forum members in establishing a Facebook page for us to share concert pitch music sheets of Ottoman and Turkish
music?
I know that a certain amount of Ottoman Classical music is available in concert pitch notation, but I also know that several Forum members have
created concert pitch sheets of Turkish music that deserve a wider sharing (IMHO).
I also would love some added motivation for me to transpose more Turkish Sufi Ilahiler.
Any interest in participating in this project?
Do Forum members have sheets to contribute?
Peace out,
"Udi" John
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Jack_Campin
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I have no interest whatever in Facebook anything.
Why can't it be hosted here?
(As a recorder player, I have no problem with several different kinds of transposition - it isn't in the least difficult if you just decide to go for
it).
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John Erlich
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Hi Jack,
Have you visited any of the Arabic Facebook pages to which I refer? I think, if you put aside your antipathy to Facebook, you might find the format
VERY user-friendly. Anyway, my post was primarily directed to oud players, and specific challenges we face as fretless string players working in
"clumsy" keys.
Peace out,
John
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Brian Prunka
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Jack, you may also note that "transposition" in this case is shorthand for a process a good deal more complex than the literal meaning. As a jazz
guitarist, I don't find transposition difficult either (although it is more challenging with microtonal music due to the peculiar way in which many
half-flat and half-sharp notes transpose).
"Translation" is more apt, as it requires knowledge of the Turkish and Arabic maqam systems in order to convert the different accidentals used in the
two systems. Since many people really work almost exclusively in one or the other system, I sympathize with the difficulty in translating between the
two.
I think it's an interesting idea. I dislike Facebook but unfortunately it is something of a necessity professionally. Might as well make it useful.
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adamgood
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Quote: Originally posted by John Erlich  | Greetings Fellow Oud Fanatics,
QUESTION: Is there interest among Forum members in establishing a Facebook page for us to share concert pitch music sheets of Ottoman and Turkish
music?
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John, what is "concert pitch" referring to, just curious.
Adam
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Brian Prunka
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I think he really means "Arabic notation", i.e., Rast = C & simplified accidentals based on 24tet schema.
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PaulS
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Forgive my ignorance but do you mind telling me about some of the existing FB pages for notes?
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John Erlich
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Hi Folks,
To address some questions/comments...
Regarding what I meant by "concert" pitch, Brian is essentially correct. I borrowed the term from my jazz composing & arranging days, when I had
to transpose song charts for Bb and Eb horns. "Concert" pitch in this context refers to the original, untransposed keys. I can play Turkish notlari
on my Arabic oud, but the keys are often very clumsy (for me, anyway) and don't (IMHO) make use of most resonant registers of the instrument.
To illustrate, I have attached a Turkish and an Arabic chart for the same piece.
Regarding why I would prefer to use Facebook, rather than this Forum for the purpose, case and point: I tried last night to post two charts of the
same song to illustrate the difference between Turkish and Arabic notation. However, I was unable to do so because of the size limitations for
attachments. I had to wait to get to a different computer with software allowing me more ability to manipulate the files. I don't think this would
ever be a problem in Facebook.
PAUL: Here is one Arabic FB notat page: https://www.facebook.com/#!/adelsamwael?fref=pb&hc_location=prof...
Honestly, I thought I was just doing what we do here, i.e., facilitating cross-cultural experience; in this case, helping Arabic-style oudists learn
Turkish music.
I was not intending to spark a debate about "correct" notation systems or nomenclature or about the relative merits of this Forum and/or Facebook.
Peace out,
"Udi" John
[file]34359[/file]
[file]34360[/file]
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Brian Prunka
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John, I think the confusion here is that there is no "untransposed key" in reality. The standard of C for Arabic is just as arbitrary as G for
Turkish. It so happens that Arab musicians have largely adopted the practice of tuning to match the written pitch, but this is not the case on old
recordings. It's not like actual transposing instruments like the Horn or Saxophone.
I knew what you meant, but I think someone like Adam who is used to the Turkish system would find it strange, since your "concert pitch" is typically
a whole step below his even if you consider the transposition. I thought it was clear enough from your original explanation, though.
It's the internet! everything sparks a debate, often unrelated to the initial intent.
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Gocauo
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| Quote: Originally posted by John Erlich | Greetings Fellow Oud Fanatics,
I've found about a dozen Arabic Facebook pages whose main purpose is posting & sharing Arabic music sheets. (Great resource!)
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Interested 
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
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| Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka | John, I think the confusion here is that there is no "untransposed key" in reality. The standard of C for Arabic is just as arbitrary as G for
Turkish. It so happens that Arab musicians have largely adopted the practice of tuning to match the written pitch, but this is not the case on old
recordings. It's not like actual transposing instruments like the Horn or Saxophone.
I knew what you meant, but I think someone like Adam who is used to the Turkish system would find it strange, since your "concert pitch" is typically
a whole step below his even if you consider the transposition. I thought it was clear enough from your original explanation, though.
It's the internet! everything sparks a debate, often unrelated to the initial intent. |
Brian: Thanks for your thoughtful contributions!
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
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Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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OK -- I admit I'm feeling a little bit "proprietary" about that information; it took me a lot of effort to find those pages. (I have some Arabic
language skills, but only some!) Best way: Send me a "Friend" message on Facebook; once we're Friends, check out my list of "Likes."
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