Masel
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Is there an ideal string tension? How to choose?
I've been researching about this as I am about to make an order of pyramid lute strings. I found the string tension tables (bumped in another thread)
but I am not sure what I should be aiming for.
I read in older threads that 3.2-3.4 is what I should be aiming for but I also read this changes from string to string for instance the high c and g
should have a higher tension than the bass strings.
What rule (if any) should I follow?
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Masel
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Also, how far up can you go in tension?
I ask because normally I tune my oud half a step lower, to B. According to pyramid's tables a 0.7mm string would give a tension of about 3.5kg on my
oud which has 58.5 string length. If i tune up to c that would increase the tension of the string to over 3.62 .
I guess that is ok but the problem could occur in the basses, for example if I tune the F and C up to G and D... sometimes I even tune the low C up to
E, to play segah. So what gauge should the bass string be, if i want it to be able to go as low as B and as high as E?
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Matthias
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Quote: Originally posted by Masel  | Also, how far up can you go in tension?
I ask because normally I tune my oud half a step lower, to B. According to pyramid's tables a 0.7mm string would give a tension of about 3.5kg on my
oud which has 58.5 string length. If i tune up to c that would increase the tension of the string to over 3.62 . I guess that is ok but the problem
could occur in the basses, for example if I tune the F and C up to G and D... sometimes I even tune the low C up to E, to play segah. So what gauge
should the bass string be, if i want it to be able to go as low as B and as high as E? |
a half tone raises or lowes the tension with about 3 Newton.
and see my post here:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=4299#pid105...
Best regards
Matthias
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Brian Prunka
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Tension is not the only factor to consider. String material and the tonal qualities of different materials at different diameters, as well as the
"feel" of the string are important.
Most moderns ouds can safely handle around 4kg, at least on a few courses.
Remember that tensions are cumulative, and if you are concerned about the bridge shearing off or the face warping under the tension, it is mostly the
total tension you are concerned with. When discussing safety, keep this in mind. This is why it is generally not a problem to tune the low C up to D
(you are only changing one string, so the total change may only be from ~35Kg to ~35.6Kg for example). Tuning a double F course up to G as well is
trickier, but OK if you are careful about the tensions.
Retuning the whole oud is a considerably bigger challenge.
You will have to compromise the sound in one of the tunings in order to do this safely. I would aim to have to average tension no greater than 3.8Kg
at any point and any individual course no greater than 4.1Kg. Personally, I much prefer low tension and usually aim for no more than ~3.2Kg average
tension. But unless the oud is old, most ouds aren't going to be damaged if you go a bit higher.
As Matthias notes, raising the pitch increases the tension by ~3N or about .3Kg So if you raised all 11 strings a half step, then you have added
about 3.3Kg to the tension. Say your original tension was 3.4Kg average, then your original total as 34Kg. Your new total is 37.3, and your new
average is 3.7. Still Ok.
If your original tension was 3.7, then you would be getting into possibly dangerous territory.
So your original proposal to use somewhere between 3.1 and 3.5Kg average should be fine. Just make sure no individual string's starting tension is
above 3.6.
Additionally, I tend to prefer lower tensions on the 2nd course if it is nylon, due to the "tubby" sound of thick nylon. If using nylon on the third
course, it's impossible to get high tensions out of nylon. If using synthetics with higher density, like PVF or Nylgut, then it is different.
Usually the first c' and the low C are the highest tensions.
As Matthias suggests, you have to experiment and find the tensions that work best for you and your oud.
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Masel
Oud Junkie
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I only saw the latest answers now, thank you! I have been experimenting already but the truth is i don't change strings often so it is hard to compare
from memory. This gives me a better grasp.
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Omar Al-Mufti
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Generally all the strings I use on my 58.5 ouds are designed for Turkish ouds and Turkish tuning, namely 58.5 cm with dd for the first nylon string.
Those sets should excert medium tension on ouds if tuned according to Turkish scale. I use the same strings tuned to CC cc which gives me a lower
tension, somthing defnately less that 3.5 per string. This tension could be insufficient for many players (I was one), but i have noticed that the
difference in sound is not really big, could be even nicer in some cases, playability is a bit different, but anyone could get used to it after 15
minutes of practice.
This insures that the oud is always on lower tension, the thing that might extend oud life and preserves the action unchaged. At the end of the day,
well-built ouds will give great sounds even with poor quality and poor tension strings.
I have lately used Daddario on my Abu Alaa's oud. Prior to that I used Pyramid lute and i literally HATED that oud and put it here in the forum for
sale and I was ready to give it away for 65% of what i paid for that oud. Now, even if I get double what I asked for, I wouldn't give it away. It
sounds undescribably nice, although the strings tension is much lower and the strings quality as well.
The wisdom is: try as many string types as you can, start with lower tension upwards. It worked fine with me.
I had Exactly same experience with 60 cm string length, Daniel Mari, one of the cheepest strings types and rather lower tension, worked the BEST on
big ouds.
I hope that this tip could help you guys. You cannot imagine how much money I spent experimenting different strings types and tension ranges.
Expensive custom made string are not always the solution.
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coolsciguy
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Location: Washington D.C.
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| Quote: Originally posted by Omar Al-Mufti | Generally all the strings I use on my 58.5 ouds are designed for Turkish ouds and Turkish tuning, namely 58.5 cm with dd for the first nylon string.
Those sets should excert medium tension on ouds if tuned according to Turkish scale. I use the same strings tuned to CC cc which gives me a lower
tension, somthing defnately less that 3.5 per string. This tension could be insufficient for many players (I was one), but i have noticed that the
difference in sound is not really big, could be even nicer in some cases, playability is a bit different, but anyone could get used to it after 15
minutes of practice.
This insures that the oud is always on lower tension, the thing that might extend oud life and preserves the action unchaged. At the end of the day,
well-built ouds will give great sounds even with poor quality and poor tension strings.
I have lately used Daddario on my Abu Alaa's oud. Prior to that I used Pyramid lute and i literally HATED that oud and put it here in the forum for
sale and I was ready to give it away for 65% of what i paid for that oud. Now, even if I get double what I asked for, I wouldn't give it away. It
sounds undescribably nice, although the strings tension is much lower and the strings quality as well.
The wisdom is: try as many string types as you can, start with lower tension upwards. It worked fine with me.
I had Exactly same experience with 60 cm string length, Daniel Mari, one of the cheepest strings types and rather lower tension, worked the BEST on
big ouds.
I hope that this tip could help you guys. You cannot imagine how much money I spent experimenting different strings types and tension ranges.
Expensive custom made string are not always the solution. |
What Omar suggests is exactly what my luthier suggested for the oud he built me recently, i.e. using turkish strings and tuning one step lower for an
arabic tuning. I wonder if this practice is common among udists here.
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