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Dreamz
Oud Addict
Posts: 35
Registered: 12-17-2009
Member Is Offline
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My Terrible Experience With Faruk Turunz
Hello ,
I've decided to buy a double soundbaord oud from Usta Faruk Turunz
and I was told by his employee ( Zeynel ) that if I'm going to pay in advance im going to get a discount as I'm a returning customer . So I sent him
the money
and our deal was that I will get my oud after 90 days.
The deal was on a specific type of wood ( dark rosewood ) and I paid 300$ as an extra charge for upgrading my oud wood. After a month I contacted Usta
Faruk via Facebook messenger just to make sure that everything is like I ordered and to live the stages of making my oud like oud makers usually do
with their customers by sending them the stages of making their ouds, but his reply was not nice . He simply said " Our deal is 90 days so please
don't talk to me before that . I'm busy and I have many orders and you are not the only customer ! "
90 days passed quickly and Zeynel told me that the oud will be ready within a week or two . After that Zeynel made me a video for my oud showing me
its sound . Then they sent me the oud . I went to DHL to pick my oud up and I opened the package and I was shocked !
The oud bowl wood was not the one I ordered and it had some white lines ( not scratches ) but lines as shown in the attached images . The top wood ,
which is the cedar had two colors !
I immediately called Usta Faruk and Zeynel regarding the bowl wood and I asked Usta Faruk " Why did you change the bowl wood without even notifying me
or consulting me? " He said that he did not have the wood I ordered so he simply gave me another wood !!
I asked him about the two colors in the cedar and he said this is from the wood itself and he does not guarantee that he gives a one color wood for
customers !!
I asked him to take back the oud and he refused!
I asked him for a refund and he also refused!
I talked to Zeynel and he said he can't do anything regarding this matter as Usta Faruk is the owner of the business and he simply refuses to replace
the oud or refund me !
Mr. Zeynel simply blocked me on Facebook, Instagram and Whattsapp
Usta Faruk or who ever runs his page blocked me in Facebook.
I'm not trying to ruin Usta Faruk Turunz reputation but as a customer , this is just not fair !! I paid a lot of money to get a perfect oud from who
is considered to be the best oud maker in the world .. but this is what happened !
I lost money , time and I even sold the oude for less than its original price .
I had the feeling of having a cheap finished oud and I felt disappointed and depressed .
Why would Usta Faruk deal with his customers this way ?
I bought 4 ouds from him .. Is this what I deserve ?
This was my terrible experience with Usta Faruk Turunz.
Thank you all.
[file]37037[/file] [file]37039[/file] [file]37041[/file]
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Faladel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 339
Registered: 6-12-2004
Location: Spain
Member Is Offline
Mood: ya salam
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We have already reported poor treatment by the Mr. Faruk Turunuz customers, I have been one of them, promises and does not meet, and when he receives
the price does not return it in case of failure to comply with what was agreed, and when you discover flaws in their manufacture, and communicate it
is, it seems that you've committed a crime, you answered with rudeness and close to the violent language, and refuses to correct the error or to
return the money.
This is a sad reality that everyone should know not to fall into a difficult solution error.
Oud Player
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Dreamz
Oud Addict
Posts: 35
Registered: 12-17-2009
Member Is Offline
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Dear Lute ,
I have no intention of insulting anyone here .. All I wanted to say that I was not treated respectfully by him or by his employee ( Zeynel ) and I
deserve an apology and a refund for the lost money !
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cool
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I recall reading something similar that happened with our friend Dr. Bassel, here:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=14822#pid10...
On the other hand, for a due ballance I'd say I'm surprised.
As to the bowl, it may happen; since wood species in the making process does not look like or predict the final outcome after the finish completed;
but as to the SB, this's another opera: The wood you see is the wood you get and this should not have happened if the workers at the workshop had
reported this to Faruk.
Nevertheless, there are similar tops like this for sale on the web and potential costumers buy them. I for instance wouldn't have, unless it's a
couple of centuries old and/or has its sentimental value to the player, but others did and do.
This way or another, costumer is always right and he should be satisfied, whether by replacing or refunding
BTW: 4 ouds of Faruk's ? Did anything similar happen in ordering the other three ? Please draw the whole picture.
Last, you should count on the sound, so if it's irresistible, just ignore its shape. The best ouds ever did not really look like Miss Universe 
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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Dreamz
Oud Addict
Posts: 35
Registered: 12-17-2009
Member Is Offline
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Dear Alfaraby ,
Thank u so much for replying
I've read that topic long time ago.
Well, as somone who bought four ouds from Usta Faruk I can only say that going into details with him makes him angry and I dont know why .. I pay
money to get an oud that I desire using the options he provides ..
The first oud was a reduced point and it was ok
The second order was two ouds and they were better than the last order ( a double sound and a floating bridge )
The last order was disappointing ..
Im not going to lie to you or to anybody here and im not going to manipulate anything .. my complaint about my last order was about the wood and the
finishing not the sound .
He should have told me from the beginning that the wood I wanted is no longer avilable instead of taking my money and giving me another wood which I
did not like by the way !
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Dreamz
Oud Addict
Posts: 35
Registered: 12-17-2009
Member Is Offline
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Dear Faladel
Thanks for your reply
Unfortunately , you are right
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Greg
Administrator
Posts: 926
Registered: 7-22-2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Serene
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Quote: Originally posted by Dreamz  | These are the conversations that took place between me and Usta Faruk and his employee ( Zeynel ) right after I received my oud .. I'm uploading hem
here so you guys know how much I suffered from treating me disrespectfully and I still claim my right from Usta Faruk , an apology and a refund !
If this happened with another oud maker , he would happily make me a new oud like what happened to me with Usta Ender Goktepe !!
Usta Faruk, it is a shame to use your shiny past to cover your dark present!
I would forgive you if you or your employee apologized and refunded me
but instead you BLOCKED ME and took my money and turned your back to your customer like nothing has happened!!
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Dear Dreamz, I understand that you are upset and I understand that you may have a perfectly good reason to be upset. But posting 'selected' copies of
personal communications between you and another person is, in my opinion, a breach of privacy. I therefore respectfully ask that you immediately
remove these copies of private communications from the forums.
Greg (Moderator)
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Dreamz
Oud Addict
Posts: 35
Registered: 12-17-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Greg | | Quote: Originally posted by Dreamz | These are the conversations that took place between me and Usta Faruk and his employee ( Zeynel ) right after I received my oud .. I'm uploading hem
here so you guys know how much I suffered from treating me disrespectfully and I still claim my right from Usta Faruk , an apology and a refund !
If this happened with another oud maker , he would happily make me a new oud like what happened to me with Usta Ender Goktepe !!
Usta Faruk, it is a shame to use your shiny past to cover your dark present!
I would forgive you if you or your employee apologized and refunded me
but instead you BLOCKED ME and took my money and turned your back to your customer like nothing has happened!!
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Dear Dreamz, I understand that you are upset and I understand that you may have a perfectly good reason to be upset. But posting 'selected' copies of
personal communications between you and another person is, in my opinion, a breach of privacy. I therefore respectfully ask that you immediately
remove these copies of private communications from the forums.
Greg (Moderator) |
Yes sir and I apologize for doing so, but I really want to find a solution to my problem with Usta Faruk who seems careless regarding this matter !
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Ferahfeza
Oud Lover
Posts: 10
Registered: 9-9-2015
Member Is Offline
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Such a sad story, and it seems to me more serious than the previous stories regarding Faruk on this forum. This is a shame indeed.
I think we need a clear explanation from Faruk in this case.
Having paid a lot of money (as he sells the most expensive ouds), and getting such a poor treatment in return? This is not right at all.
I think customers' reviews (whether positive or negative) should be treated so seriously that Faruk could appropriately improve his work to make his
customers more satisfied.
Having said that, this experience is not about satisfaction, it is about not giving the customer what he wants for what he pays. I don't even want to
talk about blocking the person on social media etc. What is all this? This is not professional at all! If Dreamz told this story without mentioning
the name Faruk, I would probably have presumed he dealt with a sneaky person trying to cheat people.
So let's wait what Faruk will say to this.
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Dreamz
Oud Addict
Posts: 35
Registered: 12-17-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Ferahfeza | Such a sad story, and it seems to me more serious than the previous stories regarding Faruk on this forum. This is a shame indeed.
I think we need a clear explanation from Faruk in this case.
Having paid a lot of money (as he sells the most expensive ouds), and getting such a poor treatment in return? This is not right at all.
I think customers' reviews (whether positive or negative) should be treated so seriously that Faruk could appropriately improve his work to make his
customers more satisfied.
Having said that, this experience is not about satisfaction, it is about not giving the customer what he wants for what he pays. I don't even want to
talk about blocking the person on social media etc. What is all this? This is not professional at all! If Dreamz told this story without mentioning
the name Faruk, I would probably have presumed he dealt with a sneaky person trying to cheat people.
So let's wait what Faruk will say to this.
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Dear Farahfaza , thank you so much for your comment
I'll be waiting with you for an explanation from Usta Faruk
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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| Quote: Originally posted by Greg |
posting 'selected' copies of personal communications between you and another person is, in my opinion, a breach of privacy. I therefore respectfully
ask that you immediately remove these copies of private communications from the forums.
Greg (Moderator) |
I am not weighing in on this dispute, but I strongly disagree with Greg here. A businessman, acting in his official capacity, communicating with a
customer has absolutely zero right or expectation of privacy with regard to communication. I say this as someone who also runs a business—one must
conduct official business in a manner that presumes your statements may be made public. Customers have every right to share their experiences. The
solution here is for Mr. Turunz to address the concerns, not to censor the complaint.
Once in a while, someone will ask for a more personal opinion from me, and I will make it clear that I will speak personally on the understanding that
the communication is private. But it is an exception—standard communications have no expectation of privacy.
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Dreamz
Oud Addict
Posts: 35
Registered: 12-17-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka | | Quote: Originally posted by Greg |
posting 'selected' copies of personal communications between you and another person is, in my opinion, a breach of privacy. I therefore respectfully
ask that you immediately remove these copies of private communications from the forums.
Greg (Moderator) |
I am not weighing in on this dispute, but I strongly disagree with Greg here. A businessman, acting in his official capacity, communicating with a
customer has absolutely zero right or expectation of privacy with regard to communication. I say this as someone who also runs a business—one must
conduct official business in a manner that presumes your statements may be made public. Customers have every right to share their experiences. The
solution here is for Mr. Turunz to address the concerns, not to censor the complaint.
Once in a while, someone will ask for a more personal opinion from me, and I will make it clear that I will speak personally on the understanding that
the communication is private. But it is an exception—standard communications have no expectation of privacy. |
Thank you dear Brian, I used to be a regular customer of yours and I can tell how much you were honest, clear and kind with me .. the reason why I
uploaded some screenshots from my conversation with Usta Faruk is that I wanted everyone to see how he insulted me and treated me disrespectfully ..
he doesn't have the right to treat his customwrs the way he did and also he can't take decisions without consulting or asking for their opinions ..
its my money and my instrument , wether he likes it or not !!
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1353
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
Member Is Offline
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With no disrespect intended toward any party may I please say that the operative word in Greg's post was "selected".
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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I disagree, Jody, I think the operative words were "privacy" and "remove". Mr. Turunz should have no expectation of privacy with respect to business
communications with customers. I understand the concern about "selected" communications, but the solution there is not to remove the information but
for Mr. Turunz to respond with his side of the story. I didn't see the messages myself, but I see no issue with sharing Mr. Turunz's own words.
Believe me, I have reason to be sympathetic to Mr. Turunz and I'm not criticizing him here. My issue is with the idea that Dreamz doesn't have to
right to make these conversations public.
I have dealt with some really terrible people and at times it requires enormous restraint to remain polite when someone who is accusing you of fraud
(meanwhile all of the fault is with them, and I have bent over backwards to assist them), yet I have done so. Even when I have no personal interest
in keeping a customer (I have banned the unrepentantly obnoxious), I still go out of my way to be polite and to resolve the situation to their
satisfaction, in many cases losing money.
If Mr. Turunz didn't speak English and frequent this board, then I would be more inclined to agree with Greg.
I was once slandered on an Arabic message board. The person made up lies and I had no way to respond. Turunz can speak for himself here, though.
As a customer myself, I also consider that I have every right to shame a business that behaves unethically, using every honest means to do so.
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1353
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
Member Is Offline
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"Operative" was a poor choice of word on my part. I meant that the inclusion of the word "selective" in Greg's message seemed to me to be noteworthy.
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 733
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving my oud
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Was the top visible in the video you were sent before shipping? While somewhat uncommon, oddly colored cedar is not unheard of on instruments.
Personally I dislike the way it looks and would not order an instrument with that type of grain. I feel like any kind of unusual top should be
approved by the customer.
The bowl looks like rosewood to me. Is it not?
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Dreamz
Oud Addict
Posts: 35
Registered: 12-17-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Jason | Was the top visible in the video you were sent before shipping? While somewhat uncommon, oddly colored cedar is not unheard of on instruments.
Personally I dislike the way it looks and would not order an instrument with that type of grain. I feel like any kind of unusual top should be
approved by the customer.
The bowl looks like rosewood to me. Is it not? |
the top was not clear in the video and he did not send me clear photos for my oud. I was not allowed to ask about my oud . It's like a court sentence
!
You have the right to order ouds but you can't see them and can't complaint later about how they look.
Zeynel says it is ROSEWOOD but I did not ask for this wood . The one I ordered and paid 300$ for had different look and color . Then there is the
issue of white lines in the bowl itself which Faruk and his employee explains that this wood comes like this . So , I should remain silent and keep my
mouth shut and take the oud and say nothing!!
Bottom of the line,
I did not choose the wood and I was not even notified of the change he made in my oud wood selection !
I did not like this cheap-look cedar top !
We are talking about A FARUK TURUNZ DOUBLE SOUNDBOARD here
not a cheap oud !!
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Ferahfeza
Oud Lover
Posts: 10
Registered: 9-9-2015
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Jason | Was the top visible in the video you were sent before shipping? While somewhat uncommon, oddly colored cedar is not unheard of on instruments.
Personally I dislike the way it looks and would not order an instrument with that type of grain. I feel like any kind of unusual top should be
approved by the customer.
|
I agree with Jason here. Even though luthiers including Faruk could defend themselves by explaining the fact that the pattern of the wood might be
oddly coloured naturally, customers should be told what they are going to have, as it should be understood that some people might well have obsessions
about the look of their oud. I even personally didn't like the face of Dreamz's oud, as it really looks awkward. Given that he paid more than 4000
USD, he has every right to question the strange look of the face of his 'new' oud.
I think it is all about aesthethics and personal taste.
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Oud Freak
Oud Junkie
Posts: 291
Registered: 11-23-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud Jerk
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Absolutely agreed with Dreamz.
However, I find this soundboard one of the loveliest!
Here's another example of how a cedar top can be, though many do not like it like this but I personally love it.
For example oud by Master Ghadban:
[file]37087[/file]
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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Brian,
I believe you misunderstood Greg. First and foremost, Greg replied to Dreamz as a moderator of these forums, which he takes seriously...and for that,
I am beyond grateful. As a moderator he helps maintain standards of communication by members when using the forums. Greg was taking into consideration
Dreamz' possible breach of proper etiquette on public forums, as well as protecting him from possibly being in breach of privacy laws that vary widely
between the many countries where the forums are read. He is also protecting me in this matter as well, as the owner and publisher of these forums. I'm
actually surprised that you are ok with somebody posting actual screenshots of private emails or texts. I think you know better than that. Also, in no
way whatsoever did he ask him to remove the text that he wrote recounting his negative experience. He only asked him to remove the actual screenshots
of "selected" private emails or texts between himself and Faruk or whoever is sending the emails on his behalf. He didn't in any way "censor" his
complaint. He actually wrote that Dreams, and I quote, "...may have a perfectly good reason to be upset."
Thank you Dreamz for removing those screenshots and heeding what Greg asked you to do. Believe me when I tell you that Greg has years and years of
experience (I don't want to say how many years or else I may be in breach of proper etiquette and privacy laws...j/k Gregor) and knowledge of business
ethics, broadcasting and publication law and is a good judge of the standards I have come to expect of forum members. I have actually had the good
fortune to have met him in person, and know this to be absolutely true. By the way, I too am of the belief that you should not have posted images of
private emails or texts. You are free to share your negative experience though, and again, in no way did Greg try to censor your complaint, and I
think you understood that to be true as well.
Finally, in many cases, Greg contacts me to discuss possible problems. That is not always possible due to time differences, and on the occasions where
he has to make a value call without contacting me, he does so as my representative and with my total support. I ask that all members respect that.
Throughout the years there really has not been too many instances where we have had to intervene. That, in my estimation, is a testament to the
quality of character of the active members on these forums.
Mike
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Dreamz
Oud Addict
Posts: 35
Registered: 12-17-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Ferahfeza | | Quote: Originally posted by Jason | Was the top visible in the video you were sent before shipping? While somewhat uncommon, oddly colored cedar is not unheard of on instruments.
Personally I dislike the way it looks and would not order an instrument with that type of grain. I feel like any kind of unusual top should be
approved by the customer.
|
I agree with Jason here. Even though luthiers including Faruk could defend themselves by explaining the fact that the pattern of the wood might be
oddly coloured naturally, customers should be told what they are going to have, as it should be understood that some people might well have obsessions
about the look of their oud. I even personally didn't like the face of Dreamz's oud, as it really looks awkward. Given that he paid more than 4000
USD, he has every right to question the strange look of the face of his 'new' oud.
I think it is all about aesthethics and personal taste.
|
Believe me my dear , I was not allowed to know anything about my oud until is is finished and ready to be shipped .. and I'm not even allowed to
refuse taking the oud .. What would a helpless customer like me do with a oud maker that refuses to admit that he is WRONG!
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Dreamz
Oud Addict
Posts: 35
Registered: 12-17-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Oud Freak | Absolutely agreed with Dreamz.
However, I find this soundboard one of the loveliest!
Here's another example of how a cedar top can be, though many do not like it like this but I personally love it.
For example oud by Master Ghadban:
|
Thank you brother ,
Yes , actually I did not like my soundboard at all!
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Dreamz
Oud Addict
Posts: 35
Registered: 12-17-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Mike | Brian,
I believe you misunderstood Greg. First and foremost, Greg replied to Dreamz as a moderator of these forums, which he takes seriously...and for that,
I am beyond grateful. As a moderator he helps maintain standards of communication by members when using the forums. Greg was taking into consideration
Dreamz' possible breach of proper etiquette on public forums, as well as protecting him from possibly being in breach of privacy laws that vary widely
between the many countries where the forums are read. He is also protecting me in this matter as well, as the owner and publisher of these forums. I'm
actually surprised that you are ok with somebody posting actual screenshots of private emails or texts. I think you know better than that. Also, in no
way whatsoever did he ask him to remove the text that he wrote recounting his negative experience. He only asked him to remove the actual screenshots
of "selected" private emails or texts between himself and Faruk or whoever is sending the emails on his behalf. He didn't in any way "censor" his
complaint. He actually wrote that Dreams, and I quote, "...may have a perfectly good reason to be upset."
Thank you Dreamz for removing those screenshots and heeding what Greg asked you to do. Believe me when I tell you that Greg has years and years of
experience (I don't want to say how many years or else I may be in breach of proper etiquette and privacy laws...j/k Gregor) and knowledge of business
ethics, broadcasting and publication law and is a good judge of the standards I have come to expect of forum members. I have actually had the good
fortune to have met him in person, and know this to be absolutely true. By the way, I too am of the belief that you should not have posted images of
private emails or texts. You are free to share your negative experience though, and again, in no way did Greg try to censor your complaint, and I
think you understood that to be true as well.
Finally, in many cases, Greg contacts me to discuss possible problems. That is not always possible due to time differences, and on the occasions where
he has to make a value call without contacting me, he does so as my representative and with my total support. I ask that all members respect that.
Throughout the years there really has not been too many instances where we have had to intervene. That, in my estimation, is a testament to the
quality of character of the active members on these forums.
Mike |
Hello Mike,
you are most welcome and I , again , apologize for uploading those screenshots. My only intention was to prove that I was not making this up
or lying to you ; I was telling the TRUTH !
Thank you so much for your explanation and such a thing will not happen again .
Dreamz
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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OT
| Quote: Originally posted by Mike | Brian,
I believe you misunderstood Greg. First and foremost, Greg replied to Dreamz as a moderator of these forums, which he takes seriously...and for that,
I am beyond grateful. As a moderator he helps maintain standards of communication by members when using the forums. Greg was taking into consideration
Dreamz' possible breach of proper etiquette on public forums, as well as protecting him from possibly being in breach of privacy laws that vary widely
between the many countries where the forums are read. He is also protecting me in this matter as well, as the owner and publisher of these forums. I'm
actually surprised that you are ok with somebody posting actual screenshots of private emails or texts. I think you know better than that. Also, in no
way whatsoever did he ask him to remove the text that he wrote recounting his negative experience. He only asked him to remove the actual screenshots
of "selected" private emails or texts between himself and Faruk or whoever is sending the emails on his behalf. He didn't in any way "censor" his
complaint. He actually wrote that Dreams, and I quote, "...may have a perfectly good reason to be upset."
Thank you Dreamz for removing those screenshots and heeding what Greg asked you to do. Believe me when I tell you that Greg has years and years of
experience (I don't want to say how many years or else I may be in breach of proper etiquette and privacy laws...j/k Gregor) and knowledge of business
ethics, broadcasting and publication law and is a good judge of the standards I have come to expect of forum members. I have actually had the good
fortune to have met him in person, and know this to be absolutely true. By the way, I too am of the belief that you should not have posted images of
private emails or texts. You are free to share your negative experience though, and again, in no way did Greg try to censor your complaint, and I
think you understood that to be true as well.
Finally, in many cases, Greg contacts me to discuss possible problems. That is not always possible due to time differences, and on the occasions where
he has to make a value call without contacting me, he does so as my representative and with my total support. I ask that all members respect that.
Throughout the years there really has not been too many instances where we have had to intervene. That, in my estimation, is a testament to the
quality of character of the active members on these forums.
Mike |
Fair enough, and I understand why you might be concerned about legal ramifications as the owner of the forum.
Please forgive me if I disagree very strongly that Dreamz was guilty of any ethical violation or that customers have any ethical requirement to
refrain from disclosing the contents of official communications from businesses, barring any explicit agreement to that effect. If the business says
"I will give you a discount on the condition that you not disclose that information", or something like that, it is different—the customer has
agreed to conditional privacy. Likewise, it is different if there is a business-to-business communication—there the business is not involved in a
public activity. But when a business interacts with the public, those interactions become public presumptively.
I don't in any way doubt your appeal to Greg's authority in these matters. But to whatever extent the laws vary on this point around the world, it has
no bearing on the underlying ethical question.
Businesses are inherently public entities, and as such, their interactions with members of the public are also public, subject only to the privacy
interests of the customer, not the business. These are not "private emails" from the standpoint of Turunz or his employees, they are only private
from the standpoint of the customer.
Do you really think that a business has a right to insult and berate their customers without the customer being able to cite such behavior due to the
"privacy" rights of the business? It is of course necessary that the customer be permitted to supply such proof of behavior as is available.
Otherwise, the customer has mere assertions, which the business owner can dispute. This serves nobody. So of course Dreamz's complaint has been
censored. Perhaps there are good reasons for this, as you say. But it is not right to say that it hasn't been censored. He (apparently) supplied
proof of his claims, essential to substantiating his complain,t and was asked to remove it.
One of the tests of an ethical position is to consider its wider ramifications for society. It seems quite clear to me that the effect of my position
is to encourage businesses to be on their best behavior when interacting with the public. The converse position shields businesses from their
behavior and leaves customers with little recourse when abused or taken advantage of.
If you want to say "due to misguided laws around the world, we need to be on the safe side and refrain from posting screenshots of emails without
explicit permission", that's totally understandable, and I get it. And if Greg has advised you that this is the case, then I'm sure he is correct and
you should trust him.
But I've not seen from you or Greg any ethical argument against disclosing official messages from a business to a member of the public in the course
of their business, just the dubious assertion that these are "private emails"—an assertion that I consider refuted above.
Anyway, this is way off topic at this point. We'll have to agree to disagree.
As always, I greatly appreciate all you've done in providing this forum for the oud community. I'm sure that the incredibly friendly and polite
atmosphere of this forum is due in large part to your influence. It's rare that a forum avoids rancor so assiduously; it seems safe to assume that
it's not a coincidence or that oud players are just a naturally friendly bunch (maybe so, but still). So perhaps it is a wise choice for the health
of the forum, I don't know.
Personally, I hold Mr. Turunz in high esteem as a maker based on the ouds of his I have played. He also has made an effort to make more affordable
instruments available, a nice gesture. I am not defending (or opposing) Dreamz's claims in any way, merely defending all of our rights as customers
to relate our experiences with businesses, a right I was disturbed to see challenged here.
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Dreamz
Oud Addict
Posts: 35
Registered: 12-17-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lute | The good news is that, we all more or less have acknowledged that Dream's was mistreated by Faruk, and all have shown good intentions regarding this
matter. That is great!
NOW, the only thing has been left is that, he gets his apology and a partial refund from Faruk!
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Thank you lute ..
Mr. Faruk Turunz Should know that I did not like his cheap-looking oud and I had to sell it for less than its original price .. well , somone may
say " why did you sell the oud? Its your mistake!"
No its not my mistake .. my mistake was that I trusted him ..
I'm not questioning the oud sound .. its the wood and the finishing .. believe it or not , the reduced point oud was more beautifel than my double oud
.. his oud was nothing but a big disappointment !
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