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Author: Subject: Sandi oud kit : feedback and result of assembling
suz_i_dil
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[*] posted on 10-19-2015 at 01:53 PM
Sandi oud kit : feedback and result of assembling


Hello

just wish to share with you the result of my building from the oud kit I bought from Saadetin Sandi.

I decided to go for an oud kit to get a bowl ready, by lack of time and because I really wanted to focus on the soundboard before going to a bigger project.
First I must say the kit is a perfect deal regarding its price and quality you get.
Setting the neck for my level was challenging, resulting on a rather thick fingerboard. More thick than I wished.

The bowl is a little small for an arabic oud I think (48cm length, and around 18cm deepness ). So I settle it 57 cm stringlength to keep some vibration space behind the bridge
It's my second soundboard, and looking backward to the first one I wanted to work on 2 things mostly, richness of trebles and reactivity/sensitivity of the oud.
I focus on the flexibility of the soundboard to settle the size of the bracings

Limitation was the quality of the wood of the soundboard. Very flexible in the cross way of wood fiber but rather stiff in the running length ways of wood fiber.

It works it the way I wished but maybe to much actually.
There is a lot of overtones I feel. The oud is reactive, surprisingly powerful regarding the size of the bowl. I think this comes from the " contre éclisses " I added to the half binding edges.
Varnish is french polishing.
Playability is good, the oud is rather light and small, 950 gr with the strings

I took inspiration for the bracing on the overtones, using a more wide range of overtones than the one I think to found on the Abdo Nahat I posted some times ago.

Last but not least I'm very thankful to a friend luthier from my home town, whithout his help I wouldn't have been able to achieve this project.

Here is a few pictures and a record. It's difficult to catch the sound on the video, so I'm uploading a second video, more quiet playing to give another shot for the sound

Looking forward to read your comments about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnn2sUynXx8
The oud was finished 2 days ago

Best regards

[file]37183[/file] [file]37185[/file] [file]37169[/file] [file]37171[/file] [file]37173[/file] [file]37175[/file] [file]37177[/file] [file]37179[/file] [file]37181[/file] [file]37167[/file]




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suz_i_dil
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[*] posted on 10-19-2015 at 01:57 PM




[file]37187[/file]




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suz_i_dil
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[*] posted on 10-19-2015 at 02:49 PM


and a second record

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezGUtFKsS-E




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Jody Stecher
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[*] posted on 10-19-2015 at 03:15 PM


Both videos are marked "private" and are not viewable.
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suz_i_dil
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[*] posted on 10-19-2015 at 10:01 PM


Thank you Jody, it should work now



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Jody Stecher
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[*] posted on 10-19-2015 at 10:15 PM


Quote: Originally posted by suz_i_dil  
Thank you Jody, it should work now


Yes it works. And the oud sounds good, especially with the lighter touch in the second video. What kind of strings are you using?
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suz_i_dil
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[*] posted on 10-19-2015 at 10:32 PM


I agree, i mean it is not easy to record, I don't know if it comes from overtones or from a volume issue, I don't master the settings of this camera
the strings are from Kenan Ozten, 0.10 pvf set
Nice to read you like the sound, thank you :)




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Alfaraby
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[*] posted on 10-20-2015 at 03:24 AM


Maruan dear
Well done, both building and playing. Bravo
Despite the short strings, great Arabic basses, but a bit Turkish trebles. I suggest that you better replace the nylons with rectified nylons from Pyramid Lute 650, 750 or nylgut; or ask Brian or Mathias what do they suggest for such measurements.
Good luck friend

Yours indeed
Alfaraby




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suz_i_dil
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[*] posted on 10-20-2015 at 04:31 AM


Jamil my friend, thank you for your kind words. I'm really glad you enjoyed it.
My idea was to work on sensitivity first and then trebles. I think my next project will tend toward a more arabic style oud, with less overtones and deeper basse, but I want to keep this kind of trebles and sensitivity of the soundboard. Actually I love arabic oud basses but for trebles I prefer turkish one.
It will probably not be easy to find this kind of equilibre, I think I must go at least to a bigger bowl. But I'm convinced you can get deep basses no mater the stringlength. Would be glad to read some others members feedbacks about.
I will just need time to go for this next project, moreover if I go to a bowl building... make more than a year I was thinking of this finished project !

Sure I will try with several kind of sets, indeed Brian and Matthias are very good advisers.




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suz_i_dil
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[*] posted on 10-20-2015 at 08:42 AM


I've been asked for another record, in another room to avoid at most the natural reverb of the room.
So here is another video, not well constructed playing, but chilling in lower and upper register to give another take for the sound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRN4HvwZlV8&feature=youtu.be

regards




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francis
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[*] posted on 10-20-2015 at 03:29 PM


Bravo Marouan!

I really like the way trebles sound: light and clear...And don't you think basses ( whitch today are warm )become deeper with time?
Qu'appelles-tu les contre-éclisses? Tu les as rajoutées en plus du kit ( construction habituelle je suppose...)

A+
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suz_i_dil
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[*] posted on 10-20-2015 at 10:52 PM


Merci Francis, ravi qu'il te plaise !

Basses might become deeper with time, from what I have been explained. The wood of the soundboard has rather high stiffness in lengthways wood fiber, I mean also regarding its flexibility in crossways wood fiber. This kind of wood should works with time and the basses should modify in a deeper way. A story of resin and resin cells that would break with time and free the vibration of the soundboard wood...But I'm not sure this is very scientific nor have been proved. But it's a fact to feel that with time sound of spruce top ouds change.

Contre-éclisse are a reinforcement of the soundboard / bowl angle, from inside. Acting in more rigidity of the edges of the oud Check in google image you will understand what I mean. I again forgot the name of this in english (sorry John Downing !). Of cours I did those much more thinner than the one you will see for guitar on google image.
Seems contre eclisse should improve the projection mainly. They are still rarely use in oud construction. I don't know if they were more before. Surviving ouds are more young than contre eclisse are. Maybe they were more used at a time in oud building? I absolutely don't know the story of contre éclisse.

So maybe the fact with this oud is not so much its volume but that it has good projection and good trebles. That's maybe why i feel it has a lot of volume.




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Alfaraby
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[*] posted on 10-22-2015 at 12:09 AM


Marouan dear
Thank you for both your reply and u2u letter.
It seems like you're actually producing sounds that the oud does not "structurally" have in the first place, aren't you ? :)
As much as I recall, Sandi can provide Arabic oud kit as well, so give it a try or even ask them to make you one.
In your next Arabic oud, don't use the kit's pickguard and/or rosettes. Just make your own or seek other's advise, including yours indeed.

Good luck friend

Yours indeed
Alfaraby




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suz_i_dil
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[*] posted on 10-22-2015 at 10:14 AM


Hello Jamil
i'll try to answer as clear as I can. It's nothing new in terms of luthery,all are technics that are knowed and used for times. But I don't know in oud. Like contre eclisse, asymetry of bracing, reinforcement of the soundhole. There are many ways in proceeding. For exemple reinforcement of the soundhole, some makers put 2 braces more to make a kind of framework of the main soundhole. But one can also use a round reinforcement which I think more interesting acousticaly.
Asymetry, there are so many ways, height, width of the brace, thickness of the soundboard, parallelism of the braces..etc
I quit my idea to make fan bracing oud (for the moment, l need to focus on the basics and the traditionnal bracing to understand it better) but sure I will experiment different tracks for an equilibrate sound. Let's say I'ld like to achieve a traditionnal sound but with reactive and equilibrate sound
I don''t know if it answers your question, I'm not sure to catch it well.

Thank you for the idea of the arabic Sandi kit i didn't know at all. I will ask him about. Maybe a good idea to work on, parallel to preparing our own mold and bowl...another soundboard try will not be too much I think before the whole project
Maybe I will come to your advise once come the time for a rosette idea :)

All the best !









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[*] posted on 10-22-2015 at 11:02 AM


Good job Suz, this is very good work.

your next one will be better. it sounds better than my 2nd top for sure :)

But I know what you mean regarding the sound. First don't be too harsh on yourself and realize that any new oud is going to sound new. The real test is in 2-3 years of regular playing how it sounds.

also I believe the goal of making a oud is for it to sound aged as soon as possible and to that point I think the secrets of getting good oud sound are in the fundamentals of the classic ouds like manol and nahat not in the fan bracings and other luthiery inspired innovations. just my opinion.





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suz_i_dil
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[*] posted on 10-24-2015 at 10:27 AM


Thanbk you for your kind words Samir, I appreciate for sure.... Kulak zu2
I perfectly understand what you mean, and I'm really curious to hear how it will turns with years
keep on your good work my friend, stay well




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[*] posted on 11-20-2015 at 07:56 AM


amazing
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suz_i_dil
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[*] posted on 1-4-2017 at 05:01 AM


Hello

Just to share a record of a second oud soundboard recently finished.

Same principle, making a new soundboard from an existing bowl. The bracing is exactly the same than the one being used for assembling the kit
The bowl has just a little more volume. Main difference the bowl is more stiff , and also particulary the spruce we used for the soundboard is also more stiff.
I would say this receipe bring a more powerful instrument. I think I prefer the first one, more sensible. Will keep this matter of wood stiffness for the next ones.
I don't know if the record give justice to compare the sound. Moreover this one is tuned in F

Here it is:
https://youtu.be/M0lCWU-00zs




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