alaaraj
Oud Junkie
Posts: 159
Registered: 7-11-2015
Location: United Kingdom
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tuning!
|
|
Why Oud prices are kept secret?
Hello all
Why Oud prices and sometimes videos and sound files are kept secret? Whether it's here on this forum or anywhere else?
Why do you have to ask or inbox the seller for details, every single time you like their Oud?
Do the prices change depends on who's asking?
Personally, I find that really annoying! And as soon as I see no price for an advertised Oud, I immediately steer away and lose interest!
Does anyone have explanation? Anybody shares the same feeling?
Thanks!
|
|
|
ALAMI
Oud Junkie
Posts: 643
Registered: 12-14-2006
Location: Beirut
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
It depends on how you look at it.
It can be part of the charm, you are expected to bargain, some things never change in the Orient and it is not necessarily bad.
During the Christmas fair in Beirut, there was a stand by a Syrian oud and Buzuq maker from Damascus, I knew from a friendthat the guy e lost his
workshop in Damascus suburbs, I decided to buy a buzuk from him just to try the instrument, he asked for 200$, I gave him 200 without discussing, he
was surprised, he took the money, we discussed and I showed him pictures of my ouds, then he asked me why I didn't bargain, I told him that when he'll
be back to Damascus I'll buy a oud from him and I will bargain hard. The guy got tears in his eyes, he insisted on giving me back back 75$, we
(reverse) bargained, he finally accepted 150 but gave me a gig bag and an extra set of strings.
The Orient is the Orient, just go with the flow and don't be annoyed, with the amount of bad changes happening, I'd keep this one.
BTW, buzuq is an amazing instrument and a hell of fingers workout for oud players.
|
|
|
suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1061
Registered: 1-10-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Your great answer didn't bring emotions only to the seller...
wish you to enjoy your buzuq
best
|
|
|
Omar Al-Mufti
Oud Junkie
Posts: 333
Registered: 3-14-2012
Member Is Offline
|
|
I am one of the people who sells ouds here in the forum, and I do sell frequently coz I always buy and try new ouds.
I have never put prices, simply because there is a margin for bargaining for every oud. It is almost always the case that many people ask about the
same oud, and the bargaining process is always on different stages for different people. Best way to avoid misunderstanding or discrimination is to
keep the financial part hidden. Another factor, ouds in most of the cases are used. Putting a price for a used instrument is quite difficult.
Bargaining is a better solution.
Selling an oud for cheap price might affect the general prices. In some cases we need to sell ouds cheaper than they worth. This should be kept hidden
not to affect the general normal price ranges.
That's how I see it
Cheers
|
|
|
Doc139
Oud Junkie
Posts: 173
Registered: 2-23-2013
Location: Winterthur Switzerland
Member Is Offline
Mood: oud-sick
|
|
Interesting subject! It's good to read how you think about it, because we westerners are used to think and behave quite different.
Once I talked to a lebanese oud maker about his price for a certain oud I was interested in and he told me if I would start to bargain about the price
he would immediately stop talk to me...! Was this a joke? I am pretty sure his reaction would have been different if I was not a westerner but an
arabic fellow...
But maybe it's also different if it is a used instrument or a new oud?
Alexander
|
|
|
DoggerelPundit
Oud Junkie
Posts: 141
Registered: 7-28-2010
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Odar
|
|
In addition to price, Alaaraj's post included sound files and videos in what is supposedly being kept "secret."
Now what seller would try to make a bargaining position stronger by purposely hiding the look and sound of the instrument?
Almost no one, that's who.
Could sheer laziness come into it?
-Stephen
|
|
|
Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
|
|
It's not easy for everyone to post sound or video. Aside from technological issues, if you're not a very good player, it doesn't help at all and
might give people the wrong impression of the oud. Sound files are easily manipulated, and even when they're not manipulated, the sound in a
microphone has only a tangential relationship to the actual sound of the instrument.
Generally I agree that having a sound file is better than not having it, but all a sound file is going to reveal is serious problems—it's not
usually going to allow the distinction between an decent oud and a good one, and certainly not between a good one and a great one.
Regarding Doc139's comment:
In my experience, sellers often quote a higher starting price to Easterners who they expect to bargain, and a lower price to Westerners who they
expect to not bargain. Of course there are exceptions—some people think everyone from the West is rich and will just demand outlandish prices that
they know no one from the East would pay, in the hopes of getting a windfall. What situation you were in, I can't say.
All in all, none of this seems like a problem to me. The way I approach it is this:
What is something worth to me? Within reason, I just offer what I can afford to pay if it seems like an appropriate value. I am not worried about
whether it might have been possible to get something cheaper.
The obsession with 'paying too much' relative to what someone else might have paid is based on flawed thinking. You can only pay what you think is
the right amount.
Let's do a thought experiment:
Someone is selling two identical ouds (such a thing doesn't exist, but let's pretend it does), and you play one and say to yourself, "wow this is a
great oud. I think it's worth $3000." The seller says it costs $2800. You have just been offered the oud for less than you would be willing to pay,
so you accept the price without haggling, and consider it a good deal.
Someone else plays the other, identical oud, and thinks "this oud is worth $2300". The seller says it is $2800, so the person haggles and gets the
price down to $2500. He agrees anyway because people are irrational and maybe the seller was able to convince him it was worth more. He is in a
worse situation than you, because he is paying $200 more than he really thought it was worth to him, while you paid $200 less than you thought it was
worth to you.
Yet, the next day you find out that he paid $2500 for the 'same' oud that you paid $2800 for, and now you convince yourself to feel cheated, because
if you had bargained maybe you would have saved some money. This is flawed thinking, in my opinion. You actually got a better deal, even though you
paid more. What someone else paid based on their own finances and valuation has no bearing on you, and thinking it does is bound to make yourself
unhappy. Suppose you make $40 an hour and the other person makes $20. In that case, you paid 70 hours for the oud and he paid 125 hours for the oud!
(And if you think about how many hours it takes a luthier to make an oud, you both probably came out ahead). Another way to put that is that in "you
dollars" he paid $5000 (the amount that 125 hours costs you), and in "him dollars", you paid only $1400 (of course, you would only adjust one of these
for comparison so it's either $2800 vs. $5000 or $1400 vs. $2500, but not $1400 vs. $5000). So really, you got a much, much better deal if you
consider the big picture.
You can always think of things in ways to upset yourself, but there is always another way of looking at it.
I understand that someone who doesn't know the value of money or a good instrument wants there to be an objective standard that says $X is the right
price and $X+Y is too much, but really if you just know how much a good instrument is worth to you, then you can't be 'ripped off'.
Now, if you are buying instruments as investments or something, and are depending on how much it would be worth to collectors or other people, then it
is incumbent on you to do your own research to attempt to figure out what the objective value of the instrument is. The seller stating the price up
front has no bearing on this.
Regardless, you should haggle if the price stated is more than the value you determine, and don't haggle if it is equal or less. Some people haggle
just on principle because they always just want to get one over on the other person, because they think that every transaction must have a winner and
a loser, or because they are too lazy to figure out what something is worth to them.
Part of the reason for keeping prices secret may be so that the seller can determine what kind of person you are likely to be. It may also be so that
people are more engaged and serious in their inquiries.
|
|
|
Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
|
|
Also, Alami, thank you for the great story. You're a kind person.
|
|
|
Omar Al-Mufti
Oud Junkie
Posts: 333
Registered: 3-14-2012
Member Is Offline
|
|
I strongly believe that oud sound or video files should be attached to the original advertisement.
it is part of the oud specifications.
Omar
|
|
|
alchemy
Oud Maniac
Posts: 57
Registered: 11-30-2014
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Member Is Offline
|
|
Great post Brian 
I admire that reasoning. And you're right, you can always think of things in ways to upset yourself or in ways to exalt yourself and be happy.
Best
|
|
|
alaaraj
Oud Junkie
Posts: 159
Registered: 7-11-2015
Location: United Kingdom
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tuning!
|
|
You know what is worse? When you come across an advert that reads: "Turkish Oud made by xxxx for sale, good sound" ..
No price, no pictures, no sounds file and no other details!!!!
It is a relief sometimes when you realise that they left a contact number or an email!!
Onwards and upwards
HazRaj
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
