Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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abdo nahat 1928 for selling
In my opinion, it is very unlikely that this oud is an authentic Nahat, I am sorry to say.
The bowl, neck, and purfling are totally uncharacteristic and almost certainly not the work of any member of the Nahat family. The face does not
appear consistent with the types of wood used by Nahats of this time, and the purfling is likewise uncharacteristic.
The Rosettes, fingerboard and pegs are plausibly similar and could have come from a Nahat.
It's impossible to tell much from the distant photos, but the pegs don't look typical for a Nahat of this time period.
Compare the label from an authentic 1925 Abdo George:
Note the characteristic wide-grained, multi-piece soundboard, and soundhole purfling:
and elaborate purfling around the body and neck:
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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While there are others more expert than I (such as forum member Alfaraby), I have handled several dozen authentic Nahat ouds and am fairly qualified
to raise questions at least.
I didn't mention the size or shape of the bowl, as your photos do not show enough to make a judgment.
Abdo never used plain purfling.
With that evidence alone, we can be sure that the oud is not entirely authentic. At best, being very optimistic, the face was removed for repairs,
and the original purfling destroyed in the process. The absence of purfling on the fingerboard suggests, along with the atypical neck size,
construction and shape, that something happened there as well.
There is admittedly a lot of variation in Nahat ouds, particularly between members of the family. Besides the purfling, some of the things mentioned
are uncharacteristic but not necessarily unheard of. One or two odd things, with an description stating that provenance and repair history is
unknown, would go a long way towards an accurate presentation.
However, the sheer number of anomalies combined in one instrument should make any prospective buyer wary.
For the record: this is a public forum, not an auction site or classified listing. It is not up to you to tell me not to post here or comment. If
you don't want commentary, post on ebay, not here. The value in this site is in the membership and free exchange of information and opinions. The
buy and sell forum is a service for members, not for merchants. I have more experience with Nahats than most members, and have an obligation to raise
questions in cases like this.
I'm sure that AlFaraby, OudProff, Adel Salameh and other Nahat experts here will be happy to share their opinions as well.
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ameer
Oud Junkie
Posts: 458
Registered: 9-14-2009
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Mood: No Mood
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Demanding that people stop commenting on the quality and authenticity of whatever you're selling is a great way to generate more suspicion.
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ibrahimbbm
Oud Addict
Posts: 36
Registered: 6-7-2014
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Quote: Originally posted by ameer  | | Demanding that people stop commenting on the quality and authenticity of whatever you're selling is a great way to generate more suspicion.
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We need expert person not people opinions
He can comment if he sure not just think
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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I have experience with multiple ouds from every member of the Nahat family. As such, I have substantial expertise in this area and am qualified to
comment.
While there are certainly others with even more expertise, it is not reasonable to expect that only the one person with the most expertise in the
entire world is 'allowed' to comment. There is not a 'expert' certification on Nahat ouds that gives one authority to speak. Even 'expert' opinions
are still just "people's opinions".
I offered my evaluation and was fairly conservative in my comments. I did not categorically state that this is 'not Nahat' because it may indeed have
original Nahat elements and may merely have been repaired and modified. It may play great and have a great sound; there's no way to know on the
internet.
My friend Najib Shaheen is one of the foremost experts on Nahat ouds in the world, having owned, played, repaired and restored about 50 or so Nahats
ouds. Would you like me to solicit his expert evaluation? I should warn you that he will not be as cautious or diplomatic in his assessment as I have
been.
Our forum member Richard Hankey likewise has extensive experience and qualifies as an expert. Hopefully he will weigh in.
If someone with more expertise than I wishes to support the contention that this oud is 100% authentic, then that's fine. More input is better,
trying to prevent discussion is not the purpose of a discussion board. As I said, if you don't like discussion, it's very simple to
avoid: don't post your instruments for sale here.
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ibrahimbbm
Oud Addict
Posts: 36
Registered: 6-7-2014
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No my friend we can discuss and I can prove that my oud is authentic nahat 100%
All are original Nahat elements except Fingerboard has been changed to new one .
again we are waiting the expert persons to share with us .
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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| Quote: Originally posted by ibrahimbbm | No my friend we can discuss and I can prove that my oud is authentic nahat 100%
All are original Nahat elements except Fingerboard has been changed to new one .
again we are waiting the expert persons to share with us .
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I hope so. Looking forward to your proof.
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ibrahimbbm
Oud Addict
Posts: 36
Registered: 6-7-2014
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Sold
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Mood: Cool
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Sorry I missed this thread online, but never mind. I have the photos since I was offered this oud a month or so ago. I think it was still in Lebanon
when I was honored, but the photos were taken in Damascus, just outside the workshop where it had been hospitalized for general restoration !
In order to restore this interesting thread, I ask the moderator to move my photos on top of Brian's post, since it's a bit confusing for whom who
might read this later on after Ibrahim had deleted his post & photos.
As to the dispute here, I'd say no one here is a real expert, espacially not myself. I'm only a fan who tries to obtain some knowledge about a domain
I like. According to Wikipedea, an expert is somebody who obtains knowledge that is superior to what is obtained by the majority of the population.
Generally, he is a person with extensive knowledge or ability, based on research, experience, or occupation in a particular area of study. An expert
can be believed, by virtue of credential, training, education, profession, publication or experience, to have special knowledge of a subject, beyond
that of the average person, sufficient that others may officially and legally rely upon his opinion. In specific fields, the definition of expert is
well established by consensus and therefore it is not always necessary for individuals to have a professional or academic qualification for them to be
accepted as an expert.
All we have here is therefore more like a testimony about what we've tested in person and/or seen in pictures, rather than an expertise.
As far as we all know, Brian has seen and tested enough Nahat ouds to testify about his experience, so I count on his testimony. Though, I have to
admit that I have seen some Nahat ouds with plain purflings. Not Abdo's of course, but Hanna's and GHN's.
The label serial number matches other Abdo's from the same/before/after 1928, though I agree that any witty Nahat fan can make any label he desires
taking into consideration the right numbering.
The same might be said on rosettes as well, but in this case the rosette does not match the other Abdo's rosettes we've seen from the same years.
Unlike his brothers, who joined the carpentry shop, Elias Abdo joined the oud workshop. First, Abdo used to cut his name alone , then somewhen in the
1920's, he started adding Elias's name on the rosettes to be "Abdo Nahat & His Son Elias". Later we've seen also Abdo Nahat & sons in the
1930's, though none of his sons, except for elias, were mentioned in the history of oud making. This rosette in question is solely Abdo's, the same
we've seen on his masterpieces from the 1910's.
As to the sound, I wish this is the real sound of the oud. As we all know, recording does not reveal the real sound of the oud. Was this the case
here, it sounds great to my ear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzmVEKPlChU
This was a quick review about this case .. surely not an expertise.
Thank you for reading my testimony
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
Posts: 763
Registered: 4-26-2009
Location: Beacon, NY
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Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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I bought the oud for $20 cash money. By far the best investment I've ever made!
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s3cr3t3
Oud Maniac
Posts: 69
Registered: 6-16-2007
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Year after year it seems every Alfaraby comment is the same tired trite about everything being fake.... How much energy spent on a futile pursuit of
being right while always wrong!
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mogaith
Oud Admirer
Posts: 7
Registered: 12-20-2016
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by s3cr3t3 | | Year after year it seems every Alfaraby comment is the same tired trite about everything being fake.... How much energy spent on a futile pursuit of
being right while always wrong! |
Im sad to see this comment in here which projects some kind of negativity. I happen to know member Alfaraby, and proud to call him a dear friend, who
has helped me countless times with all the knowledge he posses without even asking anything in return. So excuse me if I posted out
of line.
Thanks.
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MattOud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 297
Registered: 1-18-2017
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Mood: Feeling Pretty G'Oud
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i am saddened as well.
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