newlife_ks
Oud Junkie
Posts: 119
Registered: 6-12-2016
Location: Germany, NRW
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Changing scale length
In your case I'd rather have a look at the string action near the nut and where the neck meets the body. If the action is too low it might well result
in buzzing. If you can put a thin postcard between the strings and the fingerboard at the nut this would be ok. About 3 mm at the neck joint are ok
too. If lesser maybe that's the reason for buzzing. You can make slight correction to the action if you release the strings a little and use a crochet
needle to pull the strings knots at the bridge up a little. That will help if the knots are not already in their highest position.
Moving the bridge does not make much sense, it is glued onto the soundboard, and nobody but an oud maker could take it off and glue it farther down
and thus giving more tension to the strings. But that would change the whole oud, the fifth on every string would be altered, you would have to play
the fifth higher up on the soundboard. And - playing your oud you would have to get used to the longer scale, the tones are somewhere else than
before. No, I believe nothing but looking for the right action will help. Much success!
P.S. Are you sure your oud is correctly in tune? Did you use a tuning fork or tuner? If your C string has not enough tension because of faulty tuning
this also has an effect.
Greetings from Klaus in Germany!
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Chococumba
Oud Lover
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Registered: 11-23-2016
Location: London UK
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Thanks Newlife_Ks for your advice. I will definitely check the action. I actually got my oud yesterday from Turkey. I'm normally used to playing ouds
with 61-63cm. The new oud has 59.50cm which is unusual for an Arabic oud. The new oud was advertised as an Arabic sized oud. The new oud was around
$500. I would say it is an intermediate quality oud. I do not know the oud maker, but I got it from Universalact on ebay.
I have not changed the strings on the new oud so I think I will try putting new strings on as well. I correctly tuned the strings from bass side to
treble BEADGC. It is mainly the A string the buzzes.
I have checked the Spruce soundboard and I cannot see it dipping downwards. The neck and fingerboard appears to be straight and flat.
I might try stringing the strings differently so that the strings go over the bridge to get a higher action, but I think its the nut end that is the
issue. I may have to get the neck re-set by a luthier. The buzz is not dramatically bad. It is only bad when I play the string hard.
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newlife_ks
Oud Junkie
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Location: Germany, NRW
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Hello Chococumba!
The way I see it arabic tuning would be CFAdgc. You see, you have both of the deep strings tuned a halftone lower than the strings are made for. That
makes a difference! Not for your A-string of course.
Do you usually play guitar? I just wondered because all the strings are tuned to fourth intervals. I come from guitar, and the usual arabic tuning
CFAdgc was quite a problem for me and still is, but it gets better. Having a major third with F and A is uncomfortable at first, like you had your
guitar fretboard turned upside down. You have to play the three bass strings with fingerings for Dgb on guitar.
I'd change to CF anyway, it's good to have the bass string in tune with the top string. And maybe it helps with buzzing too! Or BEAdgb if you like.
Many arabic tunes are in C, so if you play those notes someday you'll miss your deep C anyway I believe.
Greetings from Klaus in Germany!
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
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Quote: Originally posted by newlife_ks  | | that would change the whole oud, the fifth on every string would be altered, you would have to play the fifth higher up on the soundboard. And -
playing your oud you would have to get used to the longer scale, the tones are somewhere else than before. |
That's right, but not only. Moving the bridge 35 mm backward would seat it on the brace and mute the sound. The Turkish tuning bracing system differs
from the Arabic. The soundboard would not vibrate enough to produce the desired sound, so you'd end up loosing your instrument.
Turkish and Arabic ouds do look alike, but they are different Instruments.
I wish we could use the name OUD for Arabic and UD for Turkish. Consider it very seriously.
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: Originally posted by Alfaraby |
Maybe Aoud for Arabic and 'Ud for Turkish. On the other hand the world gets by with "guitar" even though a Flamenco guitar, a solid body Telecaster, a
Martin steel-strung 000, an archtop Super 400, a classic guitar —just to name a few — are even more different from each other than the various
kinds of "ouds" differ from each other. On yet another hand I think a Turkish fixed bridge oud and an Arabic fixed bridge oud are closer to each
other than either are to a floating bridge oud. The latter really does sound and respond like a different instrument. |
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Chococumba
Oud Lover
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Registered: 11-23-2016
Location: London UK
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I don't know how to play guitar. I tune the strings to BEADGC because I normally play pentatonic scales for Somali style oud. The action on the oud is
3mm where the neck meets the body. I tried the thin card test by placing under the strings towards the nut and it seems the strings are too low here
due to the neck being set too far back. The string height appears to be less than 1mm at nut end. I may try a different brand of strings and string
gauge such as the Aquila strings with red coating on it.
I didn't know Turkish oud and Arabic oud have a different bracing system. My new oud was made in Turkey, but was advertised as Arabic oud size. I can
try and view the bracing by shining a bright light in the sound hole in a dark room to reveal the bracing inside the body.
I won't be moving the bridge as this would be a dramatic alteration. I may have to take the oud to a luthier for an inspection.
Thanks everyone with your helpful idea.
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Matthias
Oud Junkie
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I would say the first step should be to apply correct strings following the tuning you are using. And btw. are you sure there are not strings for a
turkish tuning on he instrument? You have any informations about the strings on the instrument?
Best regards
Matthias
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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1) I doubt very much that your Turkish "Arabic" oud actually came with strings for Arabic tuning to match your oud, so a proper set might make a huge
difference
2) Most "Arabic" string sets are ideally set up for ~61cm, so even that set will be a little light on a 59.5cm oud
3) 59.5 cm is ok for Arabic tuning if you have the right strings
4) Turkish makers do not have the same tonal conception as Arabic makers and even if the instrument works perfectly well in Arabic tuning, it will
still have more of a Turkish sound or something in between (not necessarily a bad thing)
5) You aren't using a standard tuning so no standard set will be ideal
6) the height at the bridge may be low (sounds unlikely if the action is 3mm at the neck joint), this can be adjusted slightly by pull up on the loops
at the bridge. Especially on the lowest two courses, this may be helpful.
7) the height at the nut may be too close to the fingerboard, especially on the lower 3-4 courses. This can be adjusted two ways: insert a piece of
paper (index card or business card is often a good thickness) underneath the nut to raise it slightly. You don't have to raise the whole nut if the
treble strings seem fine—just cut the card to 1/3 to 1/2 the length of the nut to raise one side. The other option is to take a piece of the first
course string (if you have a spare fragment) and slide it under the strings to create a sort of "zero fret" that raises the strings off the
fingerboard slightly (again, not necessarily for all the strings, often just the low strings are the problem). This is an inelegant solution, but can
work wonders. If you want a more elegant solution than either of these, a new nut is the solution.
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Chococumba
Oud Lover
Posts: 18
Registered: 11-23-2016
Location: London UK
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Hi, I think you were right I think my oud came with Turkish strings. I have re-strung the oud with Aquilla Arabic strings and there is a lot less
buzzing. I also noticed that there is a lot more bass and the oud seems twice as loud. There is still a bit of buzzing, but I'm happy with the overall
tome and sound. I really appreciate everyones help.
To reward you, here is a video of me playing after I put the new strings on. One video is with drums in Somali style, the other is without drums.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozfs4o-ifjo&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBRzTVtz5JQ&feature=youtu.be
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