Mike's Oud Forums
Not logged in [Login - Register]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Question about turkish rhythm notation
A m i r
Oud Lover
**




Posts: 10
Registered: 12-6-2015
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 4-1-2017 at 10:40 AM
Question about turkish rhythm notation


Hey guys,

I hope someone can help me here with understanding how Turkish write their rhythms.

In contrast to Arabs, apparently Turks write their rhythms on two lines. Now, my first glimpse was that the intention was to have one line per hand.
For instance it would make some sense here: and others from http://www.turkmusiki.com/turkmusiki%20usulleri.htm.
However, now check this site http://www.turkmuzigiusulleri.com/usul/duyek/ana%20usul, it should show the rhythm "Düyek". Now change the second drop-down from "Ana Usul" to "Velveleli", which apparently means "varied" or something like that.
Now there are plenty more "tek"s than before and they all are on the same line. But nobody would play them all with one hand.
Watch for instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YS7y4625XE. When he changes instruments the first time, he plays exactly this variation. But one can clearly see that he uses both hands for the strokes. And at the end with the Darabukka he again does something else but at least he strokes "tek"s with both hands.

So basically my question is: What are the two lines for? It can't be that one line is for "düm"s and one for "tek"s. This would be a total overkill and also my first link proves different.
Thanks for any help!
Best regards,
Amir
View user's profile View All Posts By User
AKCinBE
Oud Addict
***




Posts: 34
Registered: 11-12-2017
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 2-20-2018 at 05:45 AM


I'd also like to know more about how this form of usûller notation works, if anyone has any explanations or resources to share!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Jack_Campin
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 319
Registered: 5-6-2007
Location: Scotland
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 2-20-2018 at 06:30 AM


"Velvele" = English "beating", I think, in particular for the kudum (paired kettledrums). I've seen that notation in Ozkan's book. Different lines for each drum?




View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
adamgood
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 494
Registered: 6-27-2005
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline

Mood: 2.7 koma flat

[*] posted on 2-20-2018 at 09:12 AM


Heads up, I'm self taught with this, never had a lesson in my life but this is what I've gathered over the years.

The notation I prefer is the two lined staff since that's what appears most in theory books.

Just as Jack suggests, think of it as two lines, on per drum like on a set of kudum:
http://www.kultur.gov.tr/EN,98690/kudum.html

I'm right handed so my low drum is on the right, high drum on the left (as I'm looking at them in front of me).

In the notation, the top line is for the low drum, bottom line is for high. I've had more than one percussionist express discomfort with this but you'll get used to it :)

If you don't have drums, use the backs of your legs with your hands.

and if you're really interested in this, Ozkan's book is a must:
http://www.kitapyurdu.com/kitap/turk-musikisi-nazariyati-ve-usuller...

and btw...
http://www.turkmuzigiusulleri.com

domain seems to be down.

happy beating!
Adam
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
A m i r
Oud Lover
**




Posts: 10
Registered: 12-6-2015
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 3-7-2018 at 09:10 AM


Okay so we agree that one line resembles one drum of the kudum.
Or one hand per line for darbuka for instance.

But then the question arises what the "ka" stroke means? Most western people see this as left-hand Tak.
However this is contradicting with this: http://eksd.org.tr/muzik_teorisi/aksaksemai_usulu.php
We just said that one line resembles one drum. As teks are on both lines and there is a ka in the rhythm, ka can't stand for left hand tak then.
On the other hand it also can't mean "tak with less accent", because in the Aksak Semai rhythm, there is a clear accent on the fourth count, which is a ka in the above link...

Help^^
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top

Powered by XMB
XMB Forum Software © 2001-2011 The XMB Group