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Author: Subject: Seeking Persian Dastgah Sheets
John Erlich
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[*] posted on 12-25-2017 at 08:55 AM
Seeking Persian Dastgah Sheets


Hi Oud Folks,

Does anyone have Persian Dastgah sheets other than these two?

(1) http://santur.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/persian-scale-manooche...

(2) http://www.santur.co.uk/thesis/14.gif

These are the only ones I could find on-line.

I want to work with this a little with my oud student.

Mamnoon in advance,
"Udi" John
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yavaran
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[*] posted on 12-26-2017 at 02:01 PM


Hi John,

Would a copy of the radif be helpful? PM me your email and I can send it along. I have the radif of mirza abdollah.

Also, arman sigarchi recorded a lot of the radif here: https://soundcloud.com/arman-sigarchi/sets/radif-mirza-abdollah-avaz...
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John Erlich
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[*] posted on 12-27-2017 at 11:56 PM


Quote: Originally posted by yavaran  
Hi John,

Would a copy of the radif be helpful? PM me your email and I can send it along. I have the radif of mirza abdollah.

Also, arman sigarchi recorded a lot of the radif here: [url]https://soundcloud.com/arman-sigarchi/sets/radif-mirza-abdollah-avaz-abuata
[/url]

Thanks! I sent you a U2U.

All the best,
John
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yavaran
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[*] posted on 12-28-2017 at 11:22 PM


Quote: Originally posted by John Erlich  
Quote: Originally posted by yavaran  
Hi John,

Would a copy of the radif be helpful? PM me your email and I can send it along. I have the radif of mirza abdollah.

Also, arman sigarchi recorded a lot of the radif here: [url]https://soundcloud.com/arman-sigarchi/sets/radif-mirza-abdollah-avaz-abuata
[/url]

Thanks! I sent you a U2U.

All the best,
John


John, I didn't get a u2u from you it seems. So here is a link:

https://ufile.io/do5yp
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John Erlich
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[*] posted on 12-29-2017 at 10:17 AM


Quote: Originally posted by yavaran  
Quote: Originally posted by John Erlich  
Quote: Originally posted by yavaran  
Hi John,

Would a copy of the radif be helpful? PM me your email and I can send it along. I have the radif of mirza abdollah.

Also, arman sigarchi recorded a lot of the radif here: [url]https://soundcloud.com/arman-sigarchi/sets/radif-mirza-abdollah-avaz-abuata
[/url]

Thanks! I sent you a U2U.

All the best,
John


John, I didn't get a u2u from you it seems. So here is a link:

[url]https://ufile.io/do5yp
[/url]

շնորհակալություն & ممنون
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bugaga
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[*] posted on 1-13-2018 at 07:46 AM


If you're searching for actual pieces you can find here some works of Darvish Khan:
http://www.medimuses.gr/book_publications/corpusDarvishKhan.pdf
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John Erlich
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[*] posted on 1-16-2018 at 11:00 PM


Quote: Originally posted by bugaga  
If you're searching for actual pieces you can find here some works of Darvish Khan:
http://www.medimuses.gr/book_publications/corpusDarvishKhan.pdf


Thanks. I am familiar with the Medimuses collections. I am mainly looking for Dastgah sheets other than those to which I posted links, and mostly for teaching purposes.

Thanks and best,
John
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bugaga
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[*] posted on 1-21-2018 at 01:25 AM


May I ask about the purpose of using these sheets? Then I might find some or make them myself. Do you want to use them as scales?
The first one is actually a santoor tuning chart and I'm not sure if this a big help, because on oud often you play the Dastgahs from different keys then on santoor.
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MattOud
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[*] posted on 1-21-2018 at 06:09 AM


Dear John,
Great thread and interesting to myself especially!!...
Currently, I am learning Persian Dastgah and I am trying to collect as much as I can to learn more. I really love the persian style and am very much moving that direction in my playing...
This past week I have been studying the Daad Bidaad ushaq/Mahur and Homayoun Anjas and trying to come up with my own music navigating through these scales. Navid has a nice page on this newer maqam and so I am looking at that one.

I find that breaking these maqams up as small jins is better for me as a beginner. I am still learning and this may NOT be the best approach, but I have learned alot from studying videos and can now finally after 40 years read music(SLOWLY).
I am of great interest in anything you post and will post anything i scan that may help anyone as well...

ps: The link above from yavaran to this radif is great stuff! The renditions from Arman Sigarchi are fantastic! More please :)
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John Erlich
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[*] posted on 1-21-2018 at 09:21 AM


Salam Bugaga & Matt,

I admit that my love of Persian music is a distant 3rd behind Arabic and Turkish music, but I really want to show my oud student the range of ME/NA music styles. I love to throw music sheets from different ME/NA cultures at her, because the melodic patterns tend to be different. Similarly, I think that the different cultures use the maqam/makam/dastgah differently, and even modify scales with the same name or name the "same" mode differently. Every few lessons, I like to introduce a new maqam, and have her do taqsim on it. Arabic and Turkish maqam/makam material is pretty easy to find on-line; Persian dastgah material is scarce. I would like to play more Persian music with her, and work more with Persian modes, hence the request for dastgah scale sheets.

Thanks for asking!

Peace out,
"Udi" John
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David Parfitt
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[*] posted on 1-21-2018 at 09:35 AM


John,

I have a bit of info on my site here, which I compiled from several sources:

http://oudipedia.info/persian.html

All the best

David




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John Erlich
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[*] posted on 1-21-2018 at 11:02 AM


Quote: Originally posted by David Parfitt  
John,

I have a bit of info on my site here, which I compiled from several sources:

http://oudipedia.info/persian.html

All the best

David

Thanks, David! I continue to be happy I named my son after you. :D
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[*] posted on 1-30-2018 at 02:41 PM


Quote: Originally posted by MattOud  
Dear John,
Great thread and interesting to myself especially!!...
Currently, I am learning Persian Dastgah and I am trying to collect as much as I can to learn more. I really love the persian style and am very much moving that direction in my playing...
This past week I have been studying the Daad Bidaad ushaq/Mahur and Homayoun Anjas and trying to come up with my own music navigating through these scales. Navid has a nice page on this newer maqam and so I am looking at that one.

I find that breaking these maqams up as small jins is better for me as a beginner. I am still learning and this may NOT be the best approach, but I have learned alot from studying videos and can now finally after 40 years read music(SLOWLY).
I am of great interest in anything you post and will post anything i scan that may help anyone as well...

ps: The link above from yavaran to this radif is great stuff! The renditions from Arman Sigarchi are fantastic! More please :)


I will upload the radif pdf to a hosting site tonight, but in the meantime you should note that Arman is basically playing the radif of mirza abdollah straight through, note for note to the extent possible. Great for practice!
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[*] posted on 2-4-2018 at 06:13 AM


Quote: Originally posted by David Parfitt  
John,

I have a bit of info on my site here, which I compiled from several sources:

http://oudipedia.info/persian.html

All the best

David

What is given on that page is the scales of the Daramad areas of the Dastgahs, so the low starting points. I would also recomment John to buy Hormoz Farhat's book "The Dastgāh Concept in Persian Music" as a reference as you did, as he is breaking up the main gushes to their essence and gives a good basic overview.
A few comments on your presentation (due to the complexity of Persian music I will limit it to the most necessary points):
Your Abu Ata is entirely wrong. If you wanted to quote from Farhat's book, then you forgot to add the koron on Mi. Also here we can already see the importance of the Ist (stopping or resting note) and Shahed (dominant note, 1st in hierarchy until it rests on Ist or resolves to the finalis). When we take the notes D Ep F G A Bb for Abu Ata it would circle around G, continuesly landing on Ep, until it resolves to D. But this is just the basic idea. Dastgahs are not scales, but they explore scales with a changing hierachy of notes through given gushes. So Abu Ata will most certainly make us of Hejaz (same scale, A is both Ist and Shahed now, also the melodic range expands and sometimes Bp is used). This good to know for creating improvisations, but of course, the Daramad area can be explored first .. of course this are advanced informations, but in my opinion necessary if one wants to avoid treating modal entities as mere scales (and some of them share the same scale). I just gave this as an example. Abu Ata is a quite simple Dastgah/Avaz, but in some of the others there are too many changes is note hierachy and scales and would fill a book.
In Bayate Tork it is handy to know, that it will continue to D and touch Eb, when going further up (since the scale is not copied to the octave). It is possible to end Bayate Tork on D as the final finalis (also found in several compositions).
In Afshari both A and Ap are used. G and Ep are very important notes.
In Dashti A is the very center of the melody, but will be changed to Ap very often.
Segah is complex. Most of the time Ep will be the focus, but also G can be temporarily highlighted. When going up you often use Bp and can center around C (Mokhalefe Segah: G Ap Bp C D Eb).
It should be pointed out that the scale you have given for Esfahan is the old Esfahan, which has the same scale as Mokhalefe Segah. Nowadays most musicians will use F# instead of F>.
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