John Erlich
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Maqam Question: Maghreb vs. Mashriq
An oud player friend from a Facebook forum posted the following question: "Is there a relationship between Moroccan Sikah and Levantine Sigah?"
I don't know enough about North African music to even start to answer this question.
Any experts out there?
Thanks,
"Udi" John
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suz_i_dil
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Hello
just a contribution to think this question, far from an expert opinion one can tell
But yes i think you have a relation ship
Sikah is a word of farsi origin meaning third (third degree of the scale, i found this in a book from Abd el Rahman Jabaqji, Tahlil Al Angham Fi 3ilm
Al Maqam)
Quarter notes have been imported from east, i'm not sure you had an autochton moroccan tradition for modes likes sikah
check :
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=17308#pid11...
and as described in this book page 28
https://books.google.fr/books?redir_esc=y&hl=fr&id=KWw4rVOdb...
At least this may answer the question of the relationship.
Then, If you want to know if their is a difference in the way of interpretation nowadays, would need to make a comparative study of moroccan pieces
with pieces from the original area of the maqam of interst, in its developement and also tune (sika note is rather high for exemple in turkish way
when you compare to arabic music)
Regards
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al-Halabi
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The traditional mode (tab') of sika in Moroccan music has a basic diatonic scale that extends from E to e (E F G A B c d e), although in ascending
melodic movements F# may replace F and in descending melodic movements Bb may replace B. The set of intervals of this mode is therefore quite
different from that of sika/segah in the Mashriq, in which the first degree is flattened by roughly a quarter tone, and several other degrees of the
scale (the 4th, 5th, and 7th) are likewise lowered or raised by some fraction of a tone (although in somewhat different measures in Arab and Turkish
music).
A number of Moroccan modes share the names of modes used in the Mashriq (Rast, Iraq, Hijaz, Ushashaq, Hisar), but they display quite different
intervalic structures and melodic patterns. The Moroccan modes lack the microtonal intervals characteristic of music in the Mashriq and that naturally
creates one key distinction between the two.
The basic scales of Moroccan modes are displayed in La musique classique du Maghreb by Mahmoud Guettat, pp. 265-267.
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John Erlich
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Quote: Originally posted by suz_i_dil  | Hello
just a contribution to think this question, far from an expert opinion one can tell
But yes i think you have a relation ship
Sikah is a word of farsi origin meaning third (third degree of the scale, i found this in a book from Abd el Rahman Jabaqji, Tahlil Al Angham Fi 3ilm
Al Maqam)
Quarter notes have been imported from east, i'm not sure you had an autochton moroccan tradition for modes likes sikah
check :
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=17308#pid11...
and as described in this book page 28
https://books.google.fr/books?redir_esc=y&hl=fr&id=KWw4rVOdb...
At least this may answer the question of the relationship.
Then, If you want to know if their is a difference in the way of interpretation nowadays, would need to make a comparative study of moroccan pieces
with pieces from the original area of the maqam of interst, in its developement and also tune (sika note is rather high for exemple in turkish way
when you compare to arabic music)
Regards |
Thanks...forwarded!
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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| Quote: Originally posted by al-Halabi | The traditional mode (tab') of sika in Moroccan music has a basic diatonic scale that extends from E to e (E F G A B c d e), although in ascending
melodic movements F# may replace F and in descending melodic movements Bb may replace B. The set of intervals of this mode is therefore quite
different from that of sika/segah in the Mashriq, in which the first degree is flattened by roughly a quarter tone, and several other degrees of the
scale (the 4th, 5th, and 7th) are likewise lowered or raised by some fraction of a tone (although in somewhat different measures in Arab and Turkish
music).
A number of Moroccan modes share the names of modes used in the Mashriq (Rast, Iraq, Hijaz, Ushashaq, Hisar), but they display quite different
intervalic structures and melodic patterns. The Moroccan modes lack the microtonal intervals characteristic of music in the Mashriq and that naturally
creates one key distinction between the two.
The basic scales of Moroccan modes are displayed in La musique classique du Maghreb by Mahmoud Guettat, pp. 265-267. |
Thanks...forwarded!
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Khalil_Oud
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Hi,
I've been playing Andalusian Moroccan music since my childhood and the text given by Mr. Al-Halabi is well summarized, the reference as well is one of
the best (Guettat). I would add some information that can help to understand when looking at the scale (why is different to what we know...) : that
in Andalusian music, regardless the scale, there is a way/style/sol of every scale that's why we call it Tab3 (Tab') meaning temperament. For example,
in Morocco we have three noubas (big chapters, everyone can contain 50 to 80 mouwashah) all are on ''do major'', but we play them differently because
the Tab3 (style is different).
So to make the story short and to still in this question, here is an example of andalusian seka singing from al-malouf (Tunisian andalusian music).
The scale is relatively the same as/comparable to Spanish flameco, (like kurd on E with some variations F#...) but the style is different, from where
the notion of Tab'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npaIuP6tV6k
Hope it helps to give a concrete idea...
Regards,
Khalil Moqadem
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
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Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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| Quote: Originally posted by Khalil_Oud | Hi,
I've been playing Andalusian Moroccan music since my childhood and the text given by Mr. Al-Halabi is well summarized, the reference as well is one of
the best (Guettat). I would add some information that can help to understand when looking at the scale (why is different to what we know...) : that
in Andalusian music, regardless the scale, there is a way/style/sol of every scale that's why we call it Tab3 (Tab') meaning temperament. For example,
in Morocco we have three noubas (big chapters, everyone can contain 50 to 80 mouwashah) all are on ''do major'', but we play them differently because
the Tab3 (style is different).
So to make the story short and to still in this question, here is an example of andalusian seka singing from al-malouf (Tunisian andalusian music).
The scale is relatively the same as/comparable to Spanish flameco, (like kurd on E with some variations F#...) but the style is different, from where
the notion of Tab'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npaIuP6tV6k
Hope it helps to give a concrete idea...
Regards,
Khalil Moqadem
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Shuran! Forwarded
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