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Jack_Campin
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[*] posted on 10-15-2018 at 03:46 AM
Morgh-e Sahar


The Persian song "Morgh-e Sahar" starts in Mahur and finishes in... what? What do you call that dastgah?



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bugaga
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[*] posted on 10-20-2018 at 07:59 PM


It's a common misunderstanding of a dastgah being something like a makam. These are two differently organized musical systems.
You could say this piece starts in the Daramad of Mahur then modulates to Shekasteh which is also part of Mahur and referring to Afshari (the part with Mi koron, if it's written in C), later there is a modulation to another gushe of Mahur which is called Delkash and refers to the Dastgah Shur.
As you see there is much confusion without understanding the organization of the radif which is the core of Persian classical music. Every Dastgah (and Avaz) consists of several sub-units called gushe, which are often not using full octaves, but sequences of notes with a given hierarchy and melodic and/or rhythmical structure. So sometimes from gushe to gushe it's rather the focus of notes changing, but sometimes also the scale.
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[*] posted on 10-21-2018 at 03:48 AM


Thanks, that's really helpful. I'll look those up and listen carefully.



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bugaga
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[*] posted on 10-21-2018 at 04:10 AM


If you're interested I recommend the book "The Dastgah Contept in Persian Music" by Hormoz Farhat. He is breaking down the Dastgahs and their most important gushe to their core. This is giving a good first overview. Of course, it's good to play radif yourself and to listen to pedagogical recordings like the one of Dariush Tala'i. Unfortunately I don't know of any complete recording of the radif with oud. I've heard about one by Mansour Nariman, but couldn't find it, yet.
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Chris-Stephens
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[*] posted on 10-21-2018 at 06:13 PM


bugaga pretty much nailed it, I'll add by saying there are at least 18 radif's out there, the most common is Mirza Abdollahs - of which there are recordings of on Tar available on spotify, by Nurali Borumand. Saba Motabeli has been uploading some gushes on youtube too but I dont think she's gotten that far yet. The gushe Delkash is in Mirza Abdollahs radif so you can look these up and hear it within the context of Mahur. Delkahsh is a gushe that is intentded for modulation which is why it sounds so different from the rest of Mahur. Hesar is another one which modulates. Give this great publication a read too https://www.tde-journal.org/index.php/tde/article/view/1120/996

I think Arman Sigarchi or Hossein Behroozinia has a recording of the radif on Oud
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majnuunNavid
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[*] posted on 10-22-2018 at 05:16 AM


I was just discussing the radif with someone over email and I wrote this post about it: https://www.oudforguitarists.com/thoughts-on-the-persian-radif/

It's generally challenging to play any version of the Radif on the Oud because the radif was played on Tar and Setar, and these instruments use different finger positions and techniques, and have frets which makes bringing out the particular inflections harder on a fretless instrument.

I am offering Skype lessons on the Persian Radif for Oud if anyone is interested. I teach the Radif of Mirza Abdollah, which I studied with Hossein Behroozinia.




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yavaran
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[*] posted on 10-28-2018 at 06:45 AM


70% of the radif recorded on oud :)
https://soundcloud.com/arman-sigarchi
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bugaga
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[*] posted on 10-29-2018 at 04:09 AM


Quote: Originally posted by yavaran  
70% of the radif recorded on oud :)
[url]https://soundcloud.com/arman-sigarchi
[/url]
Shur, Abu Ata, Bayate Tork, Bayate Kord, Dahsti and Mahur are maybe about 40 %, but it's good to have them.
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