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Author: Subject: Who actually plays "Iraqi" tuning? (Fa Do Re Sol Do Fa)
majnuunNavid
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[*] posted on 9-17-2020 at 03:53 PM
Who actually plays "Iraqi" tuning? (Fa Do Re Sol Do Fa)


I have only heard about this tuning recently, and it's interesting, but I don't know anyone who actually uses this tuning?



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suz_i_dil
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[*] posted on 9-19-2020 at 05:32 AM


common answer would be within the iraqi school mainly.
And I don't know why this specificity, i think it have to deal with vocal arts.
From 5 strings, some went down register adding the C, and some to the high register adding the F ? I don't know, just a thought. But i was thinking of a friend frpom east Syria who feel more confortable in his singing on F tuning.
Well
Nowadays, you will find many exemples while listening, moreover some players will use C tuning in a projet and F in another.
I think Ahmad Al Khatib use F tuning in the project Jadayel with Quatuor Bela.
I guess Said Chraibi who passed away recently, reast in peace, used it. But surely not only.
Naseer Shamma play this tuning usually.
Omar Bashir in the continuity of his father heritage play it.
Mmm..Hazem Shaheen ..ok ok he is using seven strings ouds ^^
Then i dont know but while listening, trying to play along i'm sure you will find many others

Or sometimes you will here it tune a bit higher, as Jamil Bashir did playing in G. I think to remember the album recording of Raheel el Qamar for Naseer Shamma is a tone higher




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SamirCanada
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[*] posted on 9-19-2020 at 06:19 AM


The Do instead of La is odd. But I guess it's the same as tuning base strings Do Mi instead of Do Fa. It works better sometimes for open string in certain maqams ex: Kurd



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Brian Prunka
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[*] posted on 9-19-2020 at 09:11 AM


Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada  
The Do instead of La is odd. But I guess it's the same as tuning base strings Do Mi instead of Do Fa. It works better sometimes for open string in certain maqams ex: Kurd


Having Do instead of La makes it more like the "regular" tuning, it's a transposed version of C G A d g c' (F C d g c' f').
It's not uncommon especially on old recordings, like suzidil said if it accommodates the singer's vocal range.




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[*] posted on 9-20-2020 at 09:41 AM


like the nahawand taksim for Abd el Wahab for which you shared the transcript ;)
old school is usually associated with do tuning which is not true

Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka  
Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada  
The Do instead of La is odd. But I guess it's the same as tuning base strings Do Mi instead of Do Fa. It works better sometimes for open string in certain maqams ex: Kurd


Having Do instead of La makes it more like the "regular" tuning, it's a transposed version of C G A d g c' (F C d g c' f').
It's not uncommon especially on old recordings, like suzidil said if it accommodates the singer's vocal range.




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majnuunNavid
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[*] posted on 9-21-2020 at 07:03 AM


Thanks everyone.

This tuning is potentially really great for Persian music and ensemble work. I need to try it sometime, but I would miss the low range.

I was thinking along similar lines that it's like CGADgc but transposed up. Very cool.

The next question is finding strings for this...




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suz_i_dil
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[*] posted on 9-21-2020 at 08:55 AM


Yes actually, all tuning work the same the same, in F , in C , in D you will get always the same intervals for the 1 to 4th course:
A D G C in C tuning
Then for the 2 bass courses which are the variables ones, like in C tuning : C E / C F / C G / D G for the common ones but as low as A for the single bass as we comonly hear with turkish players .. B F# which is nothing more than the one tone higher of a player in C playing his bass A E
I dont know if i make things clear ^^ but it works the same for f tuning.

A matter of transposition I found interesting while going from Arabic to Turkish studies.

Something to point, people oftenly says they don't like turkish tuning because it is two high. But the tuning of B F# allow to play a transpose version, which i think they call mustahzen (i'm not sure)..Which actually is lower than the usual arabic version play in rast C (on C tuning).
Check muhayyer semay for Cemil Bey, an arabic player tune in C you will oftenly here it began on D note. A turkish player tune in D but playing mustahzen, you will hear it begin in B (2nd course). Check a record from Necati Celik for exemple

Ok and another one..then i stop, but this is a way of playing directly on turkish score without making a headache. Considering your oud, anyway the tuning, as C tuned, withe the bass in A E you can play directly from the turkish score and play " mustahzen " way.
Check muhayyer saz semai, on the turkish score it begins in A (the B you hear on turkish records but it is just they tune one tone higher).

Maybe this is the origin of tonality between turkish and arabic scores ? I don't know

ANd if I want to play directly from turkish score as usual arabic way, i consider in my head my oud as tune in rast sol. The muhayeer note, A on turkish score, get to the usual D you hear from arabic players when you are using an oud tune in C. I mean my oud is tune in C on tuner, but in my head I read as it was in G..Get back to the story of intervals , it is just an habit to take. I tune for exemple my oud D G A D G C but I play from the Turkish score as if it was A D E A D G. Weird at first but this is just in my head as if I had an oud tune in C but without the C treble string

The same way you would play an arabic score in C on an oud tune in F, usually you will play rast F even if it written C on the score

with time this help, because you can play this way with any score, witthout bothering on matters of transposition

Going back to the string..sorry for this long disgression, may need paracetamol ;) but i think it is useful to work on

The most affordable and sure way i have found for strings is ordering C strings by lot of a brand i appreciate (i get a good price for it this way) and use for the F string nylon fish line, 0.5 to 0.6 mm, depending on the stringlength of your oud. I make this way because i mostly play in C.

best of luck




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[*] posted on 9-26-2020 at 03:45 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka  
Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada  
The Do instead of La is odd. But I guess it's the same as tuning base strings Do Mi instead of Do Fa. It works better sometimes for open string in certain maqams ex: Kurd


Having Do instead of La makes it more like the "regular" tuning, it's a transposed version of C G A d g c' (F C d g c' f').
It's not uncommon especially on old recordings, like suzidil said if it accommodates the singer's vocal range.


Exactly.
Both Munir Bashir and Naseer Shamma use this tuning. The only difference is that Munir Bashir transposes everything a 4th so basically his rast note is a F instead of C and in this cases the open C is the equivalent of the G in a 'classical Arabic tuning'.
Naseer Shamma, on the other hand, uses the open C as the rast note, which indeed is a bit unusual.
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