norumba
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pyramid lute singles for Turkish oud, Arabic tuning??
i know several people are tuning their 58.5 Turkish ouds to Arabic tuning (C to c) and am wondering if anyone is using a custom set of
Pyramids to do this, and if so what sizes.
Brian Prunka helped me put together a nice balanced Pyramid set for my 7 course floating bridge Sabsaby but for a 7 course Turkish this will be too
tense,... and he's folded down the shop.
thoughts/experiences, please?
thanking you all in advance... i really would appreciate responses! 
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suz_i_dil
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Hello Stefan
i don't have much experience with turkish tuning and pyramid lute but i can share those reference i have been advised for, i wrote them down years
ago. Unfortunately didn't wrote down for which bass tuning (should be B / F# though, the one i usually use):
PVF 0.54
PVF 0.63
1008
1015
1021
1238
Coming from serious reference, for a fix bridge turkish tuned oud, 58.5
Another option, can you give the gauges you are using for arabic tuning and precising the tuning of bass strings, as well as the kind of turkish
tuning you want (for bass strings i mean).
I have bought pyramid string calculator, so i can check for you what it says and write down the equivalence from your set to turkish tuning, keeping
the same kind of tension
Best regards
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norumba
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hi suz-i-dil,
thank you so much for the info and the offer to help!
what i am seeking to do is to keep the Arabic tuning on the Turkish oud, with a lighter tension than what im using on the floating bridge.
currently Im using the following at 58.5 on the floating bridge
C - 1440 (.046) .
F - 1029 (.036) x2
A- 1020 (.029) x2
D - 1111 (.0237) x 2
G - 1006 x2
c - .725 x2
f - .550 x2
im not sure what these tensions are, it would be good to know for reference. they feel balanced...
what Id then like to do , if I know these tensions, is to build a set that is also balanced but lower in tension for the lighter Turkish
construction.
thanks for any help you can provide!
-
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Brian Prunka
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Those tensions are a lot higher than what I would use on a fixed bridge. You might want to get the slide rule that Pyramid sells, since you have
multiple different ouds it really helps narrow down the choices.
http://pyramid-saiten.de/de/products/zubehoer-rechner.php
off the top of my head, I'd guess something like .650mm, .800mm, 1010, 1017, 1024, 1238 should be in the ballpark.
But that is without doing the calculations myself, just a going by my recollections.
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suz_i_dil
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hello
i've been checking some tension using the pyramid slide rule. Your set seems very equilibrate, but in the higher tension. I didn't understood you
wanted to keep arabic tuning, sorry. So here it is:
C - 1440 (.046) . 4.1 kilos
F - 1029 (.036) x2 4.1 kilos
A- 1020 (.029) x2 4.1 kilos
D - 1111 (.0237) x 2 4 kilos
G - 1006 x2 3.7 kilos
c - .725 x2 4.1 kilos
f - .550 x2 4.1 kilos
Following the tension of my usual basis for 57 cm ouds. I would use it on 58.5 and then see how the oud react, or go very slightly up.
On the 58.5 following the slide rule would give:
c 0.650 3.3 kilos
g 0.68 pvf 3.3 kilos
d 1009 3 kilos
A 1016 3.1 kilos
G 1020 3.2 kilos
C 1240 3.9 kilos
And another set of checking for Brian proposals:
g 0.8 mm gives 2.8 kilos
d 1010 3.4 kilos
a 1017 3.5 kilos
f 1024 3.2 kilos
c 1238 3.4 kilos
I think between both you will determine your own receipe  dont hesitate to ask for
any other one. I agree, i find the slide rule very useful to help.
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suz_i_dil
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f nylon 0.5 is given as 3.4 kilos
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Brian Prunka
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For what it's worth, 1116 is in between 1016 and 1017 and 10095 is in between 1009 and 1010. You might want to try those.
Based on those numbers I would bump the low C to 1239.
For my own ouds I usually aim for between 3 and 3.4 Kg per string, except for the G can be a bit under if it's nylon, 2.7-2.9 Kg.
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norumba
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thanks to you both, Suz-i-dil and Brian, ,thats very helpful! this gives me something to work on...my goal is to construct a set with a similar
even balance, at a lower tension.
Ill get the Pyramid slide calculator and start dialing this in.
im liking the wound G ( the 1006) and will have to check if theres an even smaller wound pair that will work for the new tension.
Brian, are you keeping the 3 to 3.4 kilo target for Turkish builds as well?
thanks again gents -- ill keep you posted...
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norumba
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hmmm, apparently their slide rule calculator is no longer available for sale, 
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suz_i_dil
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i bought it very recently from early music shop, indeed dont find it back on their website
g 1006, i used it successfully though not always very convinced in my last tries. Know I'm checking tension i understand better, think it would be
more successful in the range of tension of Brian proposals.
I've always been said not to go under 1006 gauge because it would not last long
Though
I tried once 1009 Al (ALuminium i guess) for C wounded. Just as an experiment on an advice, it was nice. Long lasting and nice sounding, gauge similar
under the finger like would be a 1006.
So in this material, checking the slide ruler maybe a 1015Al for G , which is given as 3.2 - 3.3 kilos
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norumba
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thank you suzi dil, thats helpful --- whatt the early music shop you bought the calculator from? maybe they stlll have some...
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norumba
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i found a couple of other online string calculators, and based on that, and the kind of help from both of you , I've arrived at the following:
C - 1239 .
F - 1024 x2, or 1124 or 1025
A- 1017 x2
D - 1010 x 2 or 10105
G - 1005 x2 or 906
c - .675 x2
f - .500 x2
these are all about in the 3,4 to 3.5 range, which is at the top end, but whatever on there is pretty tight, so i think this will work.
the 1024 for the low F is interesting because the Beir calculator puts that at about 3.4, rather than 3.2, so im not sure what s correct. If it is in
fact low, then id bump it up.
i wonder if keeping the 1006 g at 3.7 would be too high for this set( im thinking to bump it a notch on the Sabsaby). i cant get a tension read on a
1005.
thoughts, gents? thanks!
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suz_i_dil
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for the website
https://earlymusicshop.com/
i dont find it but maybe you can write them
regarding your new set following the slide ruler :
C - 1239 .3.7 kilos
F - 1024 x2, 3.2 kilos
or 1124 3.4 kilos
or 1025 3.3 kilos
A- 1017 x2 3.5 kilos
D - 1010 x 2 3.4 kilos
or 10105 3.5 kilos
G - 1005 x2 not on the slide rule
or 906 3.4 kilos
c - .675 x2 3.5 kilos
f - .500 x2 3.4 kilos
when between two in a range of tension in an interval of 0.1 i put the nearest one
What are the reference of calculator you used ? Are they to be used online ?
regarding gauges form the website stringsbymail
1006 is .019 diameter
1005 is .018 diameter
1015Al is .026 diameter
1010 is .0215
I think next time i will try pyramid set i would make a try to the 1015Al for G because of the gauge
Having several oud I went for others option those last years, make a while i dind't went for pyramid custom sets
When i was ordering some, i were always advised not to go under 1006 for wounded strings. But maybe 1005 reference was not existing at this time, make
a few years.
Then thoughts..you will go inside a matter of taste and how your oud react. Subjectivity. My taste went more in lower tension around 3 kilos. But not
all ouds sound under low tension
though 3.4 is maybe in the upper range of tension for fix bridge I think it would work. I dont feel it crazy. Actually i even think the ozten sets
i've been using are in this range. I oftenly tune them an half tone lower and like the result more. Lower voice sure..but i think also because i feel
the oud more free. So actually i think without knowing i'm using both, between 3 and 3.4 kilos depending on tuning
best wishes
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norumba
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thanks for running the final numbers,...thats a big big help!
i'll let you know what i come up with...
thr caluculator i was using you can download from here...
https://www.musico.it/beier-software/beier-fret-and-string-calculator/
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suz_i_dil
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nice , thanks !
Good luck, and sure let us know your feedbacks and choice
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norumba
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Thanks so much! I think this will work....I'll update when it's in place!
If I could prevail upon you for one last calculation please? for a 1007 for a G at 58.5.. ( for the floating bridge)... we know the 1006 is at 3,7
kilos, but the rest of my floating set is around 4 or 4.1, and I am thinking of bumping that to the 1007 depending upon how it measures .
Many thanks!
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suz_i_dil
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sure !
1007 is given as 4.3 kilos
high for a middle course if you keep all others around the 3.4 i guess
best wishes
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norumba
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Quote: Originally posted by suz_i_dil  | sure !
1007 is given as 4.3 kilos
high for a middle course if you keep all others around the 3.4 i guess
best wishes |
ok, thanks so much!,
the rest of the floating bridge set is at 4 or 4.1 so if 1007 is at 4.3, should be OK. the 1006 at 3.7 feels a little light with the rest of that
set ...
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