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Chris-Stephens
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[*] posted on 12-1-2020 at 10:10 AM
Le Club Bachraf


Just found this ensemble of Japenese Women playing Arabic classical music on a Sonic the Hedgehog video game soundrack?!?!?!?

https://youtu.be/0b6IsgOK6J8

Le Club Bachraf (from Turkish Peşrev)

http://www.arab-music.com/le_club_bachraf_e.html

Had to share!
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John Erlich
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[*] posted on 12-2-2020 at 06:44 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Chris-Stephens  
Just found this ensemble of Japenese Women playing Arabic classical music on a Sonic the Hedgehog video game soundrack?!?!?!?

https://youtu.be/0b6IsgOK6J8

Le Club Bachraf (from Turkish Peşrev)

http://www.arab-music.com/le_club_bachraf_e.html

Had to share!


I've known about them since the 1990s. It's tough: Arabic and Turkish music are very much improvisation-based, which tends to run against the grain of Japanese (and Chinese, for that matter) culture. I've heard some East Asians who can play ME/NA music (or jazz) quite well, but I've also heard a great deal of performances that, while technically proficient, were lacking in tarab.
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Chris-Stephens
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[*] posted on 12-3-2020 at 03:04 PM


True, John sadly improvisatin has been mostly erased from traditional East Asian classical music. Some wonderful exceptions are the Tsugaru Shamisen style of northern Japan, specific Guqin players (Li Xiangtang, Cheng Gongliang, maybe others) and the remarkable Sanjo music of Korea. Exclamations from the crowd might be considered rude in some cultures so perhaps Tarab didn't develop there like it did in the Arab world yelling Allah, or in India with Wah Wah / Kya Baat Hai but in Korean Sanjo it is still there with Chuimsae:


'Chuimsae is a form of exclamation during Korean traditional music. The gosu drummer and the audience make exclamations such as Eolsigu! or Jalhanda! ), which mean Yippee! and Good! in Korean. The chuimsae connects musician and audience and creates a cheerful atmosphere.

Chuimsae makes performance more enjoyable. With chuimsae, the music can be more active and vivid. In pansori, a good audience should make chuimsae. While in many styles of Western music the audience's sound is considered noise, the participation of audience is important in Korean music. The musician and audience can interact with chuimsae. The chuimsae is intuitive, and audience members express their feeling, impression, and agreement while listening to music. In addition, audiences make chuimsae when they feel completely enchanted by the music. In order to use chuimsae appropriately, people should have a knowledge of Pansori and ability in making impressions.'

Sounds familiar!
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majnuunNavid
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[*] posted on 12-4-2020 at 06:34 AM


I've been reflecting on the differences between Arabic and Persian music in this context. While both traditions emphasize improvisation, there is a lack of emotional outward expression in Persian music by both the audience and the performers. I've been wondering what the cause could be since I started exploring Arabic music when I realized the poetry used in Persian music is really heavy.

We do have a concept kind of like tarab. But all in all the music seems to make you want to look inward as opposed to outward .




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Chris-Stephens
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[*] posted on 12-11-2020 at 07:48 AM


" there is a lack of emotional outward expression in Persian music "

"the music seems to make you want to look inward as opposed to outward"

Thats a fascinating insight, Navid, and I've noticed the same thing. In Iranian classical music there isn't really the exciting element of surprise from flashy virtuostic playing present in the Arabic Oud taqsim, but Persian music can have a more quiet pathos. I don't think i've ever heard the audience vocalize nor have I seen the performers smile during a performance of Iranian classical music. And yea like you said its really HEAVY. Perhaps something about the differences between Arabic and Persian culture in general being reflected in the music.
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[*] posted on 12-11-2020 at 12:25 PM


Perhaps it's a matter of how and when the emotion is expressed. I remember some years ago attending a concert in San Francisco of the Iranian singer Parisa and her musicians. Out of the hundreds of people in the hall I was one of as many as five people present not of Persian descent. The audience and musicians were equally undemonstrative. At the end of the concert the crowd went wild. They stood and clapped and threw HUNDREDS of roses (I'm sure with thorns removed) at (to) Parisa. She caught them and threw them back. The audience members caught them and threw them back at her. This went on for at least 5 minutes. Maybe longer. Parisa smiled, her whole face beaming with light the whole time. The musicians were also smiling. But not during the actual musical performance.


Quote: Originally posted by Chris-Stephens  
" there is a lack of emotional outward expression in Persian music "

"the music seems to make you want to look inward as opposed to outward"

Thats a fascinating insight, Navid, and I've noticed the same thing. In Iranian classical music there isn't really the exciting element of surprise from flashy virtuostic playing present in the Arabic Oud taqsim, but Persian music can have a more quiet pathos. I don't think i've ever heard the audience vocalize nor have I seen the performers smile during a performance of Iranian classical music. And yea like you said its really HEAVY. Perhaps something about the differences between Arabic and Persian culture in general being reflected in the music.
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John Erlich
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[*] posted on 12-12-2020 at 12:11 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Chris-Stephens  
True, John sadly improvisatin has been mostly erased from traditional East Asian classical music. Some wonderful exceptions are the Tsugaru Shamisen style of northern Japan, specific Guqin players (Li Xiangtang, Cheng Gongliang, maybe others) and the remarkable Sanjo music of Korea. Exclamations from the crowd might be considered rude in some cultures so perhaps Tarab didn't develop there like it did in the Arab world yelling Allah, or in India with Wah Wah / Kya Baat Hai but in Korean Sanjo it is still there with Chuimsae:


'Chuimsae is a form of exclamation during Korean traditional music. The gosu drummer and the audience make exclamations such as Eolsigu! or Jalhanda! ), which mean Yippee! and Good! in Korean. The chuimsae connects musician and audience and creates a cheerful atmosphere.

Chuimsae makes performance more enjoyable. With chuimsae, the music can be more active and vivid. In pansori, a good audience should make chuimsae. While in many styles of Western music the audience's sound is considered noise, the participation of audience is important in Korean music. The musician and audience can interact with chuimsae. The chuimsae is intuitive, and audience members express their feeling, impression, and agreement while listening to music. In addition, audiences make chuimsae when they feel completely enchanted by the music. In order to use chuimsae appropriately, people should have a knowledge of Pansori and ability in making impressions.'

Sounds familiar!


:airguitar:
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[*] posted on 12-14-2020 at 04:39 PM


Quote: Originally posted by majnuunNavid  
I've been reflecting on the differences between Arabic and Persian music in this context. While both traditions emphasize improvisation, there is a lack of emotional outward expression in Persian music by both the audience and the performers. I've been wondering what the cause could be since I started exploring Arabic music when I realized the poetry used in Persian music is really heavy.

We do have a concept kind of like tarab. But all in all the music seems to make you want to look inward as opposed to outward .


That's interesting. I don't know much about Iranian music, but the way you describe it seems like it is almost more meditational. In Arabic music, it's hard to imagine a singer ending a line in a mawal, or an instrumentalist finishing a taqsim line without some expressions from the audience.

To me this tradition goes with Arabic music being performed at cafes and small gatherings, with hookahs. Maybe Iranian music has a different historical context for when/where its music being played.





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