maraoud108
Oud Maniac
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Sabsaby and Yildirim Palabiyik
Hi everyone,
I am going to be purchasing an oud in the coming weeks. I am a professional bassist/guitarist, so I want to get an instrument of high quality that I
will enjoy playing, but that will also serve as a first instrument for learning oud.
My main interest is sound. I really don't care about inlays and things like that. I like rich deep lows and lots of harmonics in the sound. I want an
oud that the music can just flow out of and that I can grow into as I become better.
There is someone near me who is selling a Sabsaby oud for $1000. It has a wenge bowl. I haven't been able to play it yet due to COVID restrictions,
but it is a Syrian style oud and tuned C to C.
Recently I heard a Palabiyik oud and it sounded so beautiful, but is twice as much $$$. The Palabiyik oud I heard is also wenge and is tuned C to
C.
Obviously, I would have to order this oud, and wouldn't have a chance to play it first.
My main focus will be learning Greek/Armenian/Turkish music. Udi Hrant style.
I believe Udi tuned to D. But I guess I'm wondering if it will make much of a difference having a Syrian oud versus a Turkish if they're both tuned
low.
And also, if anyone has any experience playing both Sabsaby and Palabiyik ouds, and which one would be more suited towards what I want to do. Would it
be better to just go with the Sabsaby because I have a chance to play it first? Or should I take the risk on the Palabiyik, taking a chance on
potentially not connecting with it?
Finally, does anyone have any experience with wenge wood for bowls? And if so, how do they sound compared to other woods?
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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Wenge is fine, bowl choice doesn't make a huge determination in the sound.
Yildirim is Turkish so if your interest is Greek/Armenian/Turkish then getting a Turkish-made oud is a better choice. He is a well-regarded maker.
Sabsaby makes some good ouds, the more recent ones are better. Some of his old ouds were not particularly good. So hard to know how good it is
without seeing and playing it. If you were interested in playing Arabic style or weren't sure yet, I'd say it was worth checking out, but if that's
not even what you're interested in, then it makes more sense to get an oud by a Turkish maker.
Most people playing the music you're interested in are tuned up to D, so any Turkish maker will make a 58.5cm oud for that tuning, and you can just
use strings for Turkish tuning. Are you planning on ordering of from Yildirim himself? You may have a wait but get a better deal than through a
reseller. There are a lot of excellent Turkish makers, maybe some others here will chime in with their favorites. You don't say where you are, which
might help people offer advice on finding ouds that you can hear in person.
If you really want to play tuned to C, then it's best to get an oud made for that tuning. Many Turkish-style ouds don't work well in C, regardless of
the strings you use, unless they were made to be tuned lower. But lots of Turkish makers are doing ouds for this tuning now, so it shouldn't be hard
to find.
Action/playability and tuning pegs fit/quality will affect you a lot as a beginner so that is something that to consider besides jsut sound.
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hamed
Oud Junkie
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I have a oud from Yildrim that is built for arabic tuning, with a cedar top and wenge back. I ordered it from Yildrim in 2015 and have been very
happy with it. The sound is incredible and the playability is probably the best i’ve experienced. I tune it down to around B or B flat but it
sounds just as good in C and is just as playable with the same strings.
I dont have experience with Sabsaby but not confident you’ll get as good of a sound in D tuning ( as the yildrim). 2nd - my experience with arabic
builders is that the oud will not be as responsive to light or soft plucking, action may not be as low - which is partially by design because arabic
style is different.
I also own a Turkish oud from Mustafa Copcuoglu, another highly regarded maker from turkey, great oud - i actually tune this to C ( i like tuning down
for lower tension) but it sounds very turkish , all around a great instrument , very resonant and balanced on all notes, very easy to play.
Mustafa’s price point should be similar to Yildrim, they may even have some completed instruments for sale.
If you are looking to play turkish music i would advise one of those builders, a spruce top - back woods won’t matter as much as Brian stated but
wenge is common with those builders. What i know about wenge is that that it’s being widely used on ouds in turkey where it may be considered an
affordable alternative to rosewood.
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suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
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hello, if you are very much in Udi Hrant style, my advice would go also to an oud made by a turkish maker and designed for a turkish tuning. That
would make the more sense for me for you to get the sound you like. And you could keep rather polyvalent for future: many tune arabic turkish oud with
excellent rendition.
best wishes
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ChanningPDX
Oud Maniac
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Registered: 10-15-2016
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If you are interested in buying a Turkish oud, I'd second buying a Turkish oud from a Turkish maker.
I just got an oud from Kamil Gül. It's in maple with a long ebony fingerboard and came with a high quality hard case, an extra set of strings, and a
mizrap (pick). Total cost including shipping was $800.
Having played it four a couple of weeks now, the strings are settling in nicely, and I'm very pleased with how comfortable it is to play, the ease of
tuning, and the tone and projection. I would say it compares favorably with my Ali Nişadır oud, which would cost considerably more if bought
new. I bought mine set up for Arabic C/DGADGC tuning, but of course, Kamil can set it up with the tuning of your choice. You can contact him on
Facebook or Instagram.
For Turkish/Greek/Armenian music, there are three tunings in common use (from low to high):
EABEAD: Commonly used by Armenian-American oud players. Sometimes called "Armenian" or "old Turkish" tuning. The E bass can be tuned down to D for
Rast-based makams. Richard Hagopian, Ara Dinkjian, Munir Beken, and Mavrothi Kontanis all use this tuning. (I can't remember if Udi Hrant did as
well.) It's probably the easiest for general melody playing.
C#F#BEAD: This is the modern standard Turkish tuning used by most well-known Turkish oud players as well as the tuning employed in Turkish oud tutor
books.
BF#BEAD: Used by Necati Çelik and some of his students. Just tune the bass string down from C# to B. This is great for playing in kız modulation
like Necati does. Now that I have two ouds, I usually keep my Nişadır oud in this tuning.
If you've already found a teacher, be sure to check what tuning they use with students before you buy your oud.
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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For what it's worth I like both the makers but I would try the sabsaby first and see if you like the sound. The yildirim I would have full confidence
in buying sight unseen. Wenge is fine tone wood but it will be heavy. I now know that I like lighter woods myself.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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paulO
Oud Junkie
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I'd seen a photo of Hrant - and it looks like he wasn't using a low 6th string (If you check out his taksims, it kind of bears that out). Good luck !
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Jack_Campin
Oud Junkie
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I haven't played a Palabıyık myself but one of the guys in our Edinburgh group has one. Works fine at Arabic pitch, now he's got the right
strings on it. It was way too quiet before. He's Greek and he may have started out with it set at Turkish pitch.
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maraoud108
Oud Maniac
Posts: 74
Registered: 2-3-2021
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Thank you so much for your responses everyone! I have heard a recording of the Sabsaby oud and is sounds beautiful!
But there's a certain raspiness in the tone of the Palbiyik that really speaks to me, so I think I'm going to go with that.
I know some of you have talked about tuning in this thread. All of the ouds on Palabiyik's site are 58.5 CM, which is the standard length for Turkish
ouds. It seems as though there's some divergent opinions here, but given the scale length, will I be okay tuning them Turkish style D or E, with just
a lower tension string gauge?
I'm thinking E A B E A D or D G A D G C.
He says on his website that the ouds are tuned Do to Do, so I'm assuming they're marketed for Arabic tuning, C to C. But seeing that the length is the
same as other Turkish ouds I'm assuming this should be okay for higher tunings, correct?
Thank you so much for your responses. I also obsess over woods with guitars too, especially in the purchasing stage. Its a big expense for me, so I
want to make sure that I get it right, and have an instrument that I'll enjoy for years. Thank you!
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Yes, you can tune to D with strings made for Turkish tuning on any oud that is 58.5 cm. It will be "okay" in the sense that it is safe to do so.
I know a bunch of people here have said that you can tune either to D or C, and to some extent it is true. However, instruments are made to resonate
best with the tuning for which they are designed. Arabic bowls are bigger than Turkish bowls, even at the same scale length, and the bracing also
should be adapted to the tuning. Some old Arabic ouds are made to be tuned even lower than C. On those ouds, you can get lighter strings and tune up
to C, but it will never "speak" the same way as it does in the lower register.
Many Turkish ouds sound fine tuned to C, while others sound terrible. My Viken Najarian oud is beautiful on d and sounds pretty sad tuned to C, no
matter what strings are used.
Ouds are pretty tricky instruments acoustically, they are very lightly built and are operating at a very delicate balance to get a big sound out of
fragile construction and low tension (and a relatively low pitched sound out of a smallish body and short scale length). While an acoustic guitar can
easily handle a variety of tunings successfully, the body and scale are proportionately rather large, the tension much higher, and the construction
much more robust.
All of which is to say: if you want to "make sure [you] get it right," get an oud designed for the tuning you want to use. Talk to Yildirim, I'm sure
you can get an oud for d. He might say that he designs his ouds to be sure they work well in either tuning — certainly possible, as I've
encountered some ouds that really do work well in either tuning. In that case, great.
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