Tarek
Oud Lover
Posts: 12
Registered: 10-28-2021
Location: Beirut, Lebanon
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Need Advice on Recording the Oud
Hello everyone,
I'd like to start by apologizing because I know that this question might have been asked several times before, however I'd like to bring up the topic
again because I feel like I can't find an answer to my problem.
I have read countless posts online that state that my microphone should be an 'x' amount of cms away from the sound hole and what not, and I have
experimented with several different positions and microphones. I usually cap my recording volume at -6 db so I can mix or at least apply some sort of
mastering on to it, however I feel like I am never able to achieve the 'sound' I want to capture. Most of the time, I feel like either the Oud sounds
too low, or it sounds too high. How do you guys tend to place your microphones? At what db do you usually record at?
On a side note, my friend got me this pickup from abroad as a small gift: https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_truetone_t_20.htm
I understand that one should not really expect an excellent sound recording quality from a less professional pickup. I really appreciate the gest from
him, I mainly use it for jams, and it does a very good job at that. However, when I try to record with it (it's just so comfortable to record with), I
always hear this constant "static" humm that I have always have to EQ out and that in return makes my the Oud lose a lot of its sound. My wire (line
in? I have no idea what it is called) that connects the pickup to the soundcard is kind of old, and one of the 'ports' is kind of crooked.
Unfortunately, obtaining a new one is pretty hard with my current situation, and I'd like to ask if getting a new one might actually solve this
problem. As far as I know, the static noise is not coming from my laptop because I have tried using the same setup on my computer and I still ended up
getting the exact same buzzing noise.
Any thoughts or ideas would be highly appreciated!
Sorry for the long post, and I apologize for any mistakes in English as it is not my first language.
Thank you! 
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franck leriche
Oud Junkie
Posts: 175
Registered: 5-18-2011
Location: France
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You are not the only one here not being a native English speaker!
About the buzz it might be related to the electric ground, you need to check if it's working properly.
The oud is one of the most difficult instruments to record. It's really disappointing.
I have never heard any recording that is even close to what one can hear live. Compare to the oud all the other middle east instruments are super easy
to record.
One of the reasons is that the oud has very little projection. To compare it with the Iranian târ, no matter where you place the mic, it always
sounds great, a bit different but great.
The second reason is that the sound that you hear when you are playing is completely different from what people are hearing.
This being said, you need to try to achieve a sound that you like even if it's not what you hear.
I usually do the same as you -6db.
I mostly use two mics. One about 50 cm from the body neck junction and the other one at the level of my ear almost above the bridge directed to the
oud.
I prefer to have a carpet under me and the mics to avoid those ugly resonances between floor and ceiling.
But also that depends on the room you record in. If the room has a beautiful sound, you can take the mics away from the instrument.
If it has some bad resonance, better to get closer.
Also, it depends on what you are planning to do with the recording. If you want to mix it with other instruments, I suggest closer miking. And if you
use just one mic, facing the body neck junction is mostly the sweet spot.
The best is to have someone moving the mics for you, if you don't you have to move while playing trying to keep a stable position...not easy.
In a new room, I usually record many positions, saying what you are recording, and listen to it the next day with an empty ear.
Hope it can help.
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Tarek
Oud Lover
Posts: 12
Registered: 10-28-2021
Location: Beirut, Lebanon
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Thank you for the reply Frank, seems like there is a lot more to find out about microphone positions and what not. Also, for the buzz, you are
probably right as whenever I touch the metallic part of the wire the buzz literally goes away. Unfortunately, I do not think I'll be able to use two
microphones with my current setup, however I can use the pickup and one microphone. Maybe one day I could experiment with that? Anyways, I'm sorry for
the late reply but I just realized my thread has been posted as this is my first thread.
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maraoud108
Oud Maniac
Posts: 75
Registered: 2-3-2021
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Quote: Originally posted by Tarek  | Thank you for the reply Frank, seems like there is a lot more to find out about microphone positions and what not. Also, for the buzz, you are
probably right as whenever I touch the metallic part of the wire the buzz literally goes away. Unfortunately, I do not think I'll be able to use two
microphones with my current setup, however I can use the pickup and one microphone. Maybe one day I could experiment with that? Anyways, I'm sorry for
the late reply but I just realized my thread has been posted as this is my first thread.
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Yes, mic placement is an art in and of itself. Recording engineers are called "engineers" because back in the day they were considered as such.
Placing it about a foot away around where the neck meets the body is probably the best bet if you're using just one mic.
Also, what type of mic are you using, a dynamic, condenser, or riboon?
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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In my opinion the most important component in recoding a musical instrument is the engineer. I have witnessed miserable results with microphones worth
thousands of dollars and I have witnessed gorgeous sound with humble microphones used by an engineer who knew the room where the music took place and
knew how to use to different microphones in different ways according to circumstances.
It's the same as with ouds. A good oud player will get good music from a mediocre oud. The musician is the most important component. Of course a
great player and a great microphone and a great pre-amp and a great recording device and a great engineer will get optimum results. But this is not
often available in the real world.
I would suggest you keep experimenting with what you have. I would not use a pickup at all if you want sound that is similar to what you hear when you
play. The pickup can produce good sound or bad sound. But it won't be the sound of vibrating air that an oud makes.
One engineer I know places a microphone near the ears of the musician being recorded in the hopes that what is recorded will be similar to what the
musician is hearing. Sometimes it works. Sometimes not.
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Tarek
Oud Lover
Posts: 12
Registered: 10-28-2021
Location: Beirut, Lebanon
Member Is Offline
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Thank you for the replies.
To answer maraoud's question, I have a condenser microphone. The main problem is setting it up though, as I do not have a stand. Thus, whenever I feel
lazy and just recording something on the go, I use my pickup (which I mainly bought to use for live scenarios and not recording). However, it is still
possible to record from a foot away, I used to record a bit closer but now that you mention it maybe I should try recording from a bit further.
I agree with you said Jody, as I have noticed that some of my recordings sound exceptionally better than some of my other ones. I attribute that to
sheer luck with the placement of the microphone and what not. I loved the idea of placing the microphone next to the musician's ears, although I'm
sure you are right and it does not work every single time. Still, it sounds like a very interesting concept - one that brings the experience of
'playing' the instrument to the listener/audience. I also agree with the fact that you don't need an insanely expensive microphone to produce a good
sound, and that the musician is in fact the most important component to producing a good sound from the instrument.
I will try the suggestions everyone gave when I get to record later this week, thanks a lot for the advice
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Khalil_Oud
Oud Maniac
Posts: 86
Registered: 8-28-2016
Location: Montreal
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Hi Tarek,
Maybe this video will help... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww-cH29IGeM
I see that you are using one mic, but, I think It can be helpful because there are others parameters than just mic(s) positioning (included in
'engineering' : room... (maraoud108).
I tried this method, a classic one (of course for guitar: some could tell it's not the same, others it's similar...) and I got a good outcome. I
didn't post a video on youtube, but if you want to get an idea I put 2 posts on my Facebook page : the 2 samai's. It's the output that I get after a
few trials, I'm not soundman, neither sound engineer : I didn't use expansive mics either: two apex 415 B.
Khalil
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Tarek
Oud Lover
Posts: 12
Registered: 10-28-2021
Location: Beirut, Lebanon
Member Is Offline
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Thanks for the video Khalil, very informative because it also shows the thought process behind mixing an instrument in general. However, I tried
looking for the Samais on your Facebook page, but for some reason it shows that you profile has no posts? Maybe it is because I do not have a Facebook
and your profile is set to private or something like that?
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Khalil_Oud
Oud Maniac
Posts: 86
Registered: 8-28-2016
Location: Montreal
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thanks Tarek, Good for the video !
For my videos, Sorry about that, you are right, my account was private... I changed the privacy parameters : you can see the 2d and the 4th video : I
used the same set up like in the guitar video (even the mixing), I like it.
https://www.facebook.com/khaleel.alandaloussy/
Khalil
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Tarek
Oud Lover
Posts: 12
Registered: 10-28-2021
Location: Beirut, Lebanon
Member Is Offline
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Hi again Khalil, I'm afraid to say this but I think I still can not see the videos. I guess maybe it is because I do not have a Facebook account.
Nevertheless, I shall try the guitar video method very soon later this week. Thank you for your reply!
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