maxk97
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 1-2-2022
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Beginner looking for an Arabic Oud
Hi all,
I'm considering buying my first Oud and I'd appreciate some advice on purchasing a decent beginner arabic oud, preferably around 500-600 USD.
I'm based in Baltimore MD USA, and I was lucky enough to try a seller's Zeryab Shami Oud right in MD. The Zeryab looked to be made with quality
materials, but I was uncomfortable with how high the action was and the deadness of the strings in spots on the finger board. It also did not project
as loud as I was expecting. The seller said he put Turkish strings on it to get a mellower tone, and it's possible that was affecting the volume and
playability.
I was wondering if the projection level of the zeryab is about what I should expect with most arabic ouds. Im used to playing acoustic guitar so
perhaps my expectations in volume are off.
I was looking at this electric acoustic oud which is in my price range. I like the idea of using an electric acoustic oud because I could get a good
volume and use some of my guitar pedals like reverb and delay.
Here is the link to that Oud:
https://salamuzik.com/products/arabic-electric-oud-oude-ea5
Thank you!
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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If you are serious about learning to play the oud, I really would not recommend learning on an electric or flat-back oud model. If the volume and
responsiveness of a zeryab oud were disappointiing, an electric model will be even less resonant. You won't really properly learn to hold an oud with
a flat back, and you won't learn to project properly with an electric instrument. The ergonomics are all off and your experience won't translate well
if you want to play a traditional oud.
If you just want something to mess around with as a guitar player, you will certainly find it easier to fake things on something like this, but if you
really want to learn the oud then you are kind of wasting your time. I say this not as a judgment on the value of doing that, but an informed opinion
based on my experience: I've had several students start on electric or electric-acoustic ouds, and they really have to re-learn from the ground up
if they want to actually play well. The time spent playing the electric oud was not a complete waste, but has rapidly diminishing returns. The more
acoustic the oud is, the more progress you might be able to make but still you are going to be very limited in your progress.
On the other hand: if tuning the oud and learning to hold it seem like challenges that might lead to you just giving up, perhaps the gentler learning
curve of the flat-back oud are worth the tradeoffs. Personally I think this is unlikely if you've already learned to play guitar, but for a total
beginner it might make some sense. But really the solution is to work with a teacher who can help you develop a sound and proper posture/ergonomics.
Regarding the Zeryab oud:
While a budget instrument will certainly be likely to involve some compromises with the sound or possibly the action, the thing that beginners really
underestimate is the extent to which volume and projection are dependent on the skills of the player. Were you playing the oud or listening to a pro
play it? Because no beginner and even few intermediate players are capable of producing a big sound. Guitar is much more forgiving of sloppy
technique than the oud, and many guitar players pick up the oud and really don't get much sound out of it until they relearn how to pick with correct
oud technique. With proper technique, single-note playing on the oud is much louder than on a guitar. This takes time and practice (and usually
instruction) to achieve.
Normal 'good' action is about 0.5-0.7mm at the nut and about 2.0-2.5mm at the neck-body joint. 3mm at the neck-body joint is high but acceptable.
For traditional Arabic-style playing, 90% of all playing is in the first 2 positions, and the upper positions are almost exclusively utilizing the 1st
course. While pro instruments generally do respond better on the upper positions on lower strings, it's typical for this to be a weak point on
budget/student instruments. But it is unlikely to impact your playing much, since those positions are not very important. If the notes are dead in
the first 2 positions, that's a big problem, but if it is past the 4th it is not uncommon for them to lack some resonance. Yes, ideally, you want a
perfectly responsive instrument, but unless you are spending at least $1500 (and more likely 2000-3000) it's a long shot to find that on all strings
and positions.
Was this the oud you tried?
https://reverb.com/item/46281170-zeryab-shami-oud-3-2020-natural-cas...
I noticed it's in Baltimore. This should be pretty decent oud, though I can't really tell the action from the photos. The only downside on this one
is that the nut is wood, bone is much preferable. But student instruments can vary quite a bit even the same model from the same factory. So this
one might very well be a dud. It's just nearly impossible for a beginner to tell, you really need an experienced player to evaluate it. Strings can
have an effect, particularly if they are not well-balanced (often the case when using prepackaged sets, particularly Turkish strings in Arabic
tuning).
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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To add to Brian's reply:
1) again and again I've seen guitarists try oud using a pick grip that works fairly ok on guitar and getting a plinky small sound. Perhaps this is
what happened to you. Also I've seen guitarists try to play oud with a guitar pick. Inevitably the results are less-than-satisfying.
2) "Turkish strings" may mean strings made in Turkey or it may mean strings made in the USA or Europe or elsewhere of a gauge suited for one of the
Turkish tunings. I'm not sure how/why this should produce a mellower tone on an Arabic oud. One possibility is that strings designed to be tuned
higher than Arabic pitch (which describes most of the several Turkish tunings) would produce a subdued sound when tuned to Arabic tuning. It would be
like what happens when a guitar is tuned a step low. There is an increase in pleasant hum, sometimes an increase in sustain, but less projection,
less volume, less clarity.
To further muddy-fy the situation: was this oud in Arabic C tuning or Arabic F tuning? Strings intended for Turkish so-called "D tuning" would be
terribly tight when tuned up to Arabic F tuning. It is unlikely that there would be a clear sound. Especially after the oud implodes from extreme
tension.
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maxk97
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 1-2-2022
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Hey Brian, thanks for your advice,
I understand what you mean about the electric changing the way that you would traditionally approach the instrument. I hadn't thought about that much
but that is an important consideration. I find its appeal in it possibly being a more easy/practical way to perform live (less feedback), and that I
could pair it with plugins and/or effects like reverb. I'm mostly worried that it would sound tonally closer to a guitar than an actual oud!
Also yes! That is the oud I found on Reverb. The action seemed high to me but I believe it was in the range you described. I didn't expect it to be
that high but it seems that is normal.
Also, I checked your website out. You've got some cool stuff man! Good to see a fellow jazz guitarist on here.
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Edward6311
Oud Maniac
Posts: 94
Registered: 8-29-2014
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I believe a Zeryab or Sukur Ouds are great relatively inexpensive choices for beginners, which I also consider myself. I am also a collector and
currently have 7 Ouds including an electric Oud. These range from professional Ouds like my Faruk Turunz custom and Nazih Ghadban Ouds to relatively
cheaper Ouds. I enjoy playing them all. My Zeryab Oud is great! I believe it plays and sounds great. Like Brian says, each Oud is different even two
of the same model from the same builder. My Zeryab and I believe all Zeryab Ouds have an adjustable allen key nut located in the peg box to adjust the
action. I would not lower the action to the point where it creates buzzing though. I would recommend buying a new Oud from a reputable dealer to
eliminate the possibility of purchasing a damaged or repaired Oud which may also effect the action height.
As an Oudist and a teacher, I would highly consider all recommendations coming from Brian. A very highly respected member of this forum. We are all
lucky to have him and others like Jody we can all learn from!
Good luck!
Edward
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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Quote: Originally posted by Edward6311  |
As an Oudist and a teacher, I would highly consider all recommendations coming from Brian. A very highly respected member of this forum. We are all
lucky to have him and others like Jody we can all learn from!
Good luck!
Edward |
Jody is also learning :-)
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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| Quote: Originally posted by maxk97 | Hey Brian, thanks for your advice,
I understand what you mean about the electric changing the way that you would traditionally approach the instrument. I hadn't thought about that much
but that is an important consideration. I find its appeal in it possibly being a more easy/practical way to perform live (less feedback), and that I
could pair it with plugins and/or effects like reverb. I'm mostly worried that it would sound tonally closer to a guitar than an actual oud!
Also yes! That is the oud I found on Reverb. The action seemed high to me but I believe it was in the range you described. I didn't expect it to be
that high but it seems that is normal.
Also, I checked your website out. You've got some cool stuff man! Good to see a fellow jazz guitarist on here.
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Thanks, Max! Good luck with your search. I understand the desire to have something you can transition to more easily and also using effects;
personally the best thing to me about he oud is the amazing sound it produces, so I've always been drawn to playing acoustic instruments. All the
electric versions lose a lot of the beauty. Having one for loud gigs or being able to practice quietly makes some sense, but using one to start on is
not what I would advise.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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| Quote: Originally posted by Jody Stecher | | Quote: Originally posted by Edward6311 |
As an Oudist and a teacher, I would highly consider all recommendations coming from Brian. A very highly respected member of this forum. We are all
lucky to have him and others like Jody we can all learn from!
Good luck!
Edward |
Jody is also learning :-) |
As is Brian 
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spyrosc
Oud Junkie
Posts: 405
Registered: 9-18-2003
Location: Northern California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Grateful
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I have a couple of good Arabic ouds that I got from Dr. Oud, Richard Hankey that I would be willing to part with (I have more than 30 instruments and
getting old).
You can see them in an old thread that Dr. Oud posted some time ago.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=17533
The sound links on that thread don't seem to work but this following links will get you to the sound.
http://myouds.com/mus/17533_Anonymous.mp3
http://myouds.com/mus/17533_Hamido.mp3
If you are interested send me a U2U and we can work something out.
I'm a very old member of this forum and several members can vouch for me. I also wrote the THREADWALKER program (click above on the menu line ) and if
you use it with Thread = 17533 you will see them and hear them also. Incidentally THREADWALKER is a powerful program that does a lot of Data Mining on
the content of this forum but I need to update it.
Thanks
spyrosc
| Quote: Originally posted by maxk97 | Hi all,
I'm considering buying my first Oud and I'd appreciate some advice on purchasing a decent beginner arabic oud, preferably around 500-600 USD.
I'm based in Baltimore MD USA, and I was lucky enough to try a seller's Zeryab Shami Oud right in MD. The Zeryab looked to be made with quality
materials, but I was uncomfortable with how high the action was and the deadness of the strings in spots on the finger board. It also did not project
as loud as I was expecting. The seller said he put Turkish strings on it to get a mellower tone, and it's possible that was affecting the volume and
playability.
I was wondering if the projection level of the zeryab is about what I should expect with most arabic ouds. Im used to playing acoustic guitar so
perhaps my expectations in volume are off.
I was looking at this electric acoustic oud which is in my price range. I like the idea of using an electric acoustic oud because I could get a good
volume and use some of my guitar pedals like reverb and delay.
Here is the link to that Oud:
https://salamuzik.com/products/arabic-electric-oud-oude-ea5
Thank you!
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