Victoria
Oud Addict
Posts: 48
Registered: 1-24-2023
Location: Odense, Denmark
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The oud and the neighbors
Hi again fellow oud players.
I have one more question which might even sound a bit silly to you guys. So..
Does any of you live in apartments with other tenants next door? The reason I am asking is that I find the oud to be quite loud compared to the
classical guitar I am used to playing. I measure the classical to be in the 60s dB while I measure the oud to be in the 70s dB. Do you guys think it
is okay to play oud in an urban apartment setting like I live in? Sometimes I feel like holding back a bit while hitting the strings even though Navid
says you should "get the hell out of the instrument"  Especially as I kind of
suck at the oud at my current stage of learning 
Also, I do mostly play sometime between 10-19. My house rules state that you are not allowed to make noise after 23 and I never ever play later than
22. I really don't want to be a total terror for my neighbors 
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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I live in an apartment in NY. My general rule is that I don't generally practice oud before 10 am or after 10 pm. I believe the house rules for my
building say 9 am to 11 pm is okay but I want to be considerate. I know my neighbor has a child, so if it's a school night I might stop earlier. So I
think you are being reasonable, but expectations are different in different places and with different people. Heck, in NY even different
neighboorhoods have different expectations.
Like with everything else, we want to have a range of expression, so the default shouldn't be banging away on the oud or there will be no dynamics or
flow to one's playing. It is a challenge in the beginning to get a 'big' sound out of the oud so that is something that people often focus on.
And while it's okay to spend some time in the beginning specifically trying to get a bigger sound, without specific directions this is not always
helpful and can even ingrain bad habits that have to be unlearnt later (of course with the caveat that each student is different - some lucky few seem
to have a natural ability to find their way with very little guidance).
I find with my beginning (and sometimes not-so-beginning) students that they fall into two camps : either defaulting to playing too hard or being too
timid and soft. Paradoxically, these are both expressions of the same underlying problem: a lack of control, stemming from not following some basic
principles of pick hand mechanics to establish a solid, relaxed middle ground.
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Victoria
Oud Addict
Posts: 48
Registered: 1-24-2023
Location: Odense, Denmark
Member Is Offline
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Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka  | I live in an apartment in NY. My general rule is that I don't generally practice oud before 10 am or after 10 pm. I believe the house rules for my
building say 9 am to 11 pm is okay but I want to be considerate. I know my neighbor has a child, so if it's a school night I might stop earlier. So I
think you are being reasonable, but expectations are different in different places and with different people. Heck, in NY even different
neighboorhoods have different expectations.
Like with everything else, we want to have a range of expression, so the default shouldn't be banging away on the oud or there will be no dynamics or
flow to one's playing. It is a challenge in the beginning to get a 'big' sound out of the oud so that is something that people often focus on.
And while it's okay to spend some time in the beginning specifically trying to get a bigger sound, without specific directions this is not always
helpful and can even ingrain bad habits that have to be unlearnt later (of course with the caveat that each student is different - some lucky few seem
to have a natural ability to find their way with very little guidance).
I find with my beginning (and sometimes not-so-beginning) students that they fall into two camps : either defaulting to playing too hard or being too
timid and soft. Paradoxically, these are both expressions of the same underlying problem: a lack of control, stemming from not following some basic
principles of pick hand mechanics to establish a solid, relaxed middle ground.
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Thanks for your input on this I guess we use kind of the same codex when it
comes to oud playing then. I always consider what I am doing in order to be disturbing others the least possible. Sometimes people around me play loud
music etc. so I believe the expectations here are quite relaxed. The funny thing is I don't even care about others playing music because I like living
in a place that is more "alive" and has a vibe to it. But you never know what others feel about oud music
I try to find a natural way of hitting the strings and that works best for me. I believe it depends on the oud and strings as well. I feel like this
will improve whenever I practice different pieces of music and such. I try to play so that open strings are not much louder than closed. This is
something I am working with. because I like them to have the same volume. So I am not trying to get a big sound at the moment. More like a balanced
sound. And from what you describe I guess that is the right thing to do right now
Your insights surely are worth a lot to me. I believe I have improved quite a lot and I just picked up this instrument. Great!
By the way. Can I ask you one more question? Do you really think I should use half an hour a day playing the open strings like Navid states regarding
this video? Or should I continue playing the first simple melodies because I already started that exercise as well. I think half an hour is a lot
just for the open string exercise?
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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Half an hour seems like a bit much just on open strings, but this will be different person to person and honestly the proper way to structure your
time in a lesson is more complex than stating some fixed number. But overall this is a good exercise and good use of your time.
The important thing to realize that practice is largely about taking things that you have to think about and making it so that they can occur
automatically without thinking. It is literally impossible for a human brain to think about two things at the exact same time, so much of effective
practice is learning how to control your focus and attention. It's good to work a bunch on open strings because your right hand has many complex
tasks to learn to automate and the left hand will distract your focus.
However, it's of course necessary to work on the left hand as well, and part of the way we ingrain the habits is to attempt a more complex task. The
details of this are more than I can fully explore in a forum post but the in the most basic sense, adding a slight complication/distraction is like
weightlifting and you will gradually increase the amount of siimultaneous complexity you can handle.
Hope this makes sense.
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Victoria
Oud Addict
Posts: 48
Registered: 1-24-2023
Location: Odense, Denmark
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka | Half an hour seems like a bit much just on open strings, but this will be different person to person and honestly the proper way to structure your
time in a lesson is more complex than stating some fixed number. But overall this is a good exercise and good use of your time.
The important thing to realize that practice is largely about taking things that you have to think about and making it so that they can occur
automatically without thinking. It is literally impossible for a human brain to think about two things at the exact same time, so much of effective
practice is learning how to control your focus and attention. It's good to work a bunch on open strings because your right hand has many complex
tasks to learn to automate and the left hand will distract your focus.
However, it's of course necessary to work on the left hand as well, and part of the way we ingrain the habits is to attempt a more complex task. The
details of this are more than I can fully explore in a forum post but the in the most basic sense, adding a slight complication/distraction is like
weightlifting and you will gradually increase the amount of siimultaneous complexity you can handle.
Hope this makes sense.
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Well, I will prioritize it and make sure to start my lessons allocating some time to the open strings then. I see how it is important and it also
helps me getting used to the new perpendicular/slightly tilted towards floor oud position. I am also improving on finding the perfect posture without
tiring my right arm. The risha is a bit past the pickguard but bot much. The only downside is that I will have to make sure not to hit the wood too
much as the wood is very soft and I already made some slight dents The wood is
so soft! Especially as I am used to a mahogany guitar. I guess the material of the oud is some kind of spruce as it reminds me of my old childhood
desk and it was this soft as well
I am mostly working on making everything feel more natural and automated and I believe I have an advantage because I am used to the guitar on a
beginner/intermediate level. If oud was my first ever instrument it would have been a hell of a task. But I feel that I am able to use some of my
knowledge and techniques from the guitar at least.
I have started the exercises where I am using my left hand as well and I am not too bad at it. Once again this might be because of the guitar At least I find it a bit easier than I expected to hit the right notes without frets
And one other thing. I decided to use a nearby practise room building for a monthly fee so I don't have to worry about noise. At least until I get
better and I don't have to be embarrassed anymore Haha. Nevertheless, it is a
nice environment to practice.
Thanks again for all your help as this gave me a good start on the oud. I would have been far behind at this time if you had not helped me. So yeah,
thanks a whole lot
Also, I now subscribe to your YouTube channels 
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