Victoria
Oud Addict
Posts: 48
Registered: 1-24-2023
Location: Odense, Denmark
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Pickguard enlargement project
Hi again everyone.
So I have this tiny modding idea but I honestly don't know whether it is a plausible project.
So I have this oud:
which some of you already know and I am not very keen on the small pickguard and its placement. I wish it was either larger or further towards the
soundhole. I want at least the possibility of playing in a position which is more natural to me without making scratches as I found out that
everything seems better when I play between the pickguard and soundhole. I hold the oud more firmly and I don't have to bend my wrist so much which is
beginning to cause me some irritation and pain in my wrist. I have also seen many ouds which offer this possibility because they have larger
pickguards.
I have attempted playing where there is no pickguard but I immediately see some scratches and I don't like that a lot  For this reason I was thinking of buying a pickguard like this:
https://www.thomann.de/dk/gewa_pickboy_pickguard_black.htm
and cutting it out so that it will look somehow like this:
https://www.arabinstruments.com/media/blog/cache/1100x/magefan_blog/...
which means that I will just cut out a piece of the self-adhesive pickguard and put it on top of the old pickguard and making it reach towards the
soundhole like in the photo.
In addition I consider buying a white paint marker and paint the pickguard so that it has the text "Bahraini" like on this oud (my oud is from
Bahrain):
https://watarshop.com/en/products/iraqi-bahraini-oud-18149357
What do you guys think of this idea? Is there anything I should be cautious about doing? Or is it just a bad idea 
Thanks for checking it out and for any feedback 
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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The pick guard on your oud is in the usual place. It would be best if you left it alone. Putting another pick guard on top is impractical and will
look lumpy. Removing the present one can cause damage if not done by an expert. The large design of the pick guard you like is on a floating bridge
type oud and is part of the overall design. On a fixed bridge oud it might well interfere with the vibration of the soundboard.
Take a look at videos of good oud players playing three hole fixed-bridge ouds. You will see that they are striking the strings right where your pick
guard is placed. Yes at first it seems nicer to play near the sound hole. When you get to be a better player you are likely to find that it isn't
better after all.
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Victoria
Oud Addict
Posts: 48
Registered: 1-24-2023
Location: Odense, Denmark
Member Is Offline
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Quote: Originally posted by Jody Stecher  | The pick guard on your oud is in the usual place. It would be best if you left it alone. Removing it can cause damage if not done by an expert. The
large design of the pick guard you like is on a floating bridge type oud and is part of the overall design. On a fixed bridge oud it might well
interfere with the vibration of the soundboard.
Take a look at videos of good oud players playing three hole fixed-bridge ouds. You will see that they are striking the strings right where your pick
guard is placed. Yes at first it seems nicer to play near the sound hole. When you get to be a better player you are likely to find that it isn't
better after all. |
Ah okay  Well I guess it is me who has the problem then and not the oud after
all.
I guess I just have a lot to learn and my wrist needs to get used to it. But today while practicing I had to stop because I experienced this weird
pain and tingling sensation in my wrist and arm every time I moved my hand. I believe I am just being too tense while playing then.
Thanks for your input on this. I guess I should just leave it alone then 
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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Try lowering your right elbow so that your hand approaches the strings from behind the bridge. This is the typical Arabic oud playing posture. Look at
photos and videos and you'll see what I mean. Your bridge and pick guard are perhaps a bit further down the oud than average but that should make it
easier for you to reach the pick guard area. My guess is that hanging your arm over the top of the oud is causing the unpleasant sensations.
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Victoria
Oud Addict
Posts: 48
Registered: 1-24-2023
Location: Odense, Denmark
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Jody Stecher | | Try lowering your right elbow so that your hand approaches the strings from behind the bridge. This is the typical Arabic oud playing posture. Look at
photos and videos and you'll see what I mean. Your bridge and pick guard are perhaps a bit further down the oud than average but that should make it
easier for you to reach the pick guard area. My guess is that hanging your arm over the top of the oud is causing the unpleasant sensations.
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Please don't laugh at me but I uploaded a video of how I play it at the moment. In fact I don't really hang my arm over it but I may be doing it
wrong:
https://youtu.be/j-24jEHYxC4
Normally I use a footrest instead of having my legs crossed but I play it the same way. In fact I find it a bit harder to play with the footrest for
some reason.
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Jody Stecher
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Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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Oh! I was looking at a photo from an earlier thread. OK, then, well you are right, the sound is a bit brittle over the pick guard. If the strings in
the video are the old ones the new D'Addario strings might warm it up. I have used that set and I like it.
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Victoria
Oud Addict
Posts: 48
Registered: 1-24-2023
Location: Odense, Denmark
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Jody Stecher | | Oh! I was looking at a photo from an earlier thread. OK, then, well you are right, the sound is a bit brittle over the pick guard. If the strings in
the video are the old ones the new D'Addario strings might warm it up. I have used that set and I like it. |
Ah yes. You are right. At the very beginning I did that thing I believe
Regarding those strings I am using I agree that they sound a bit too brittle. These are the strings I am using in the video:
Pyramid Super Aoud
However, it is possible that my technique and lack thereof are to blame for most of the problem But I will definitely try out the D'Addario strings.
Thanks
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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I agree with Jody that this is not a great idea. Your pickguard is slightly closer to the bridge than I'd prefer, but it's in a normal range and is
where you should be picking.
Your position looks okay here, more or less, but this is nowhere near the soundhole. So I'm curious what it looks like when you play closer to the
soundhole. You are almost exactly in the middle of the pickguard here. You could easily move closer to the soundhole a bit and still be over the
pickguard. Your wrist is quite bent here, though partly because of how your arm is approaching the instrument.
The right hand has a lot of subtlety to it and it's very challenging to assess via video, much less a short video from only one angle. If you look at
videos of most oud players, you will find that their arm comes at the oud at a bit different angle than what you have here, which suggests to me that
there is something odd about your approach. It could be the orientation of the instrument to your body, the way you're holding the pick, or any
number of small things (or a combination).
A couple of things I can see: your oud seems too far over to your right. The soundhole should more or less rest over your right thigh. If you move
your oud a bit more to the left you may find your arm/hand positioning resolves itself. You definitely look quite tense and you are putting way too
much force and effort into the picking (though the general way you are picking looks good). Some amount of tension is to be expected any time you are
learning a new skill but you could benefit from trying to relax more and play a bit more lightly. It's possible if you shift the oud and find a
better balance, that you will be using less tension to hold it in place - the oud should require almost no effort to balance and hold, it should feel
like it's just resting in your arms.
I don't know who you're studying with or what course you're working through, but it really seems like you'd benefit from some actual lessons with a
teacher. In-person lessons are much faster for working through these issues but online lessons can work if a local teacher is not available.
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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All your links today lead to pages that are half covered by a large rectangle covered with Danish words, 5 places to click and a grandmother with
large eyeglasses.
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Victoria
Oud Addict
Posts: 48
Registered: 1-24-2023
Location: Odense, Denmark
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka | I agree with Jody that this is not a great idea. Your pickguard is slightly closer to the bridge than I'd prefer, but it's in a normal range and is
where you should be picking.
Your position looks okay here, more or less, but this is nowhere near the soundhole. So I'm curious what it looks like when you play closer to the
soundhole. You are almost exactly in the middle of the pickguard here. You could easily move closer to the soundhole a bit and still be over the
pickguard. Your wrist is quite bent here, though partly because of how your arm is approaching the instrument.
The right hand has a lot of subtlety to it and it's very challenging to assess via video, much less a short video from only one angle. If you look at
videos of most oud players, you will find that their arm comes at the oud at a bit different angle than what you have here, which suggests to me that
there is something odd about your approach. It could be the orientation of the instrument to your body, the way you're holding the pick, or any
number of small things (or a combination).
A couple of things I can see: your oud seems too far over to your right. The soundhole should more or less rest over your right thigh. If you move
your oud a bit more to the left you may find your arm/hand positioning resolves itself. You definitely look quite tense and you are putting way too
much force and effort into the picking (though the general way you are picking looks good). Some amount of tension is to be expected any time you are
learning a new skill but you could benefit from trying to relax more and play a bit more lightly. It's possible if you shift the oud and find a
better balance, that you will be using less tension to hold it in place - the oud should require almost no effort to balance and hold, it should feel
like it's just resting in your arms.
I don't know who you're studying with or what course you're working through, but it really seems like you'd benefit from some actual lessons with a
teacher. In-person lessons are much faster for working through these issues but online lessons can work if a local teacher is not available.
|
Thanks for taking a look at the video as well.
Well I do feel like something is not exactly right when playing. I feel that the oud wants to move around even though I make sure I am not using my
left hand for supporting it and that it rests by itself. I feel like it wants to move anyway.
I also feel that if I play more towards the soundhole, the oud stays perfectly in place. This is because the inner part of my elbow will then rest on
the edge on the oud.
I also agree that I am not approaching it like most others I see but I just can't put a finger on it. Tomorrow I fill experiment more with that
instead of the notes themselves. Look at videos of others with a similar oud as well.
I will return to using a footrest which positions the oud with the soundhole roughly above my right thigh. But unfortunately I remember that the
problem with my wrist happens here as well. What I know for sure is that I am way too tense and I will work on the relaxation. As well as finding out
why the oud does seem to "float" too freely and move around.
One thing I am considering could be a problem is that I need to make the angle larger in which the oud is pointing out in front of me.
The lessons I use are the ones from Oud for Guitarists. And I am only on the fourth exercise. Unfortunately there are no oud players or instructors in
this country it seems! I feel so alone here with this instrument.
Thanks for your suggestions. I will work on it tomorrow and maybe find a solution to the online lectures.
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Victoria
Oud Addict
Posts: 48
Registered: 1-24-2023
Location: Odense, Denmark
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Jody Stecher | | All your links today lead to pages that are half covered by a large rectangle covered with Danish words, 5 places to click and a grandmother with
large eyeglasses. |
That is insanely funny haha  So you didn't watch the video I posted? That
grandmother is me I believe but I am 34 and I look like this:
I will make sure to not wear those glasses ever again.
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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I did watch the video. I'm talking about what appeared on all the sites selling things. See my next post and click to enlarge.
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
Member Is Offline
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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| Quote: Originally posted by Victoria |
Thanks for taking a look at the video as well.
Well I do feel like something is not exactly right when playing. I feel that the oud wants to move around even though I make sure I am not using my
left hand for supporting it and that it rests by itself. I feel like it wants to move anyway.
I also feel that if I play more towards the soundhole, the oud stays perfectly in place. This is because the inner part of my elbow will then rest on
the edge on the oud.
I also agree that I am not approaching it like most others I see but I just can't put a finger on it. Tomorrow I fill experiment more with that
instead of the notes themselves. Look at videos of others with a similar oud as well.
I will return to using a footrest which positions the oud with the soundhole roughly above my right thigh. But unfortunately I remember that the
problem with my wrist happens here as well. What I know for sure is that I am way too tense and I will work on the relaxation. As well as finding out
why the oud does seem to "float" too freely and move around.
One thing I am considering could be a problem is that I need to make the angle larger in which the oud is pointing out in front of me.
The lessons I use are the ones from Oud for Guitarists. And I am only on the fourth exercise. Unfortunately there are no oud players or instructors in
this country it seems! I feel so alone here with this instrument.
Thanks for your suggestions. I will work on it tomorrow and maybe find a solution to the online lectures. |
Making the angle of the oud to your body larger might help.
Your arm should be able to rest on the oud without bringing your elbow all the way to the instrument.
While I haven't seen Navid's courses, from what I know of him he is a good teacher so I suspect that's not the problem so much as the limits of
two-dimension representations of three-dimensional events. There's only so much you can learn without direct feedback.
If you grew up around the oud and saw it being played in person all the time, you might have enough visual memory to imitate what you have seen more
easily. I've had a number of students who grew up around the oud and they usually get the basics of holding the oud and the risha movements much more
quickly.
Trying to learn only from video, especially prerecorded videos, is very challenging for someone who didn't grow up seeing it played. I just taught a
new student today and being able to reposition her hands in person took 5 minutes; it likely would have taken most of 1-2 lessons to achieve it by
giving only verbal feedback. If she was trying to figure it out on her own with no feedback and just prerecorded lessons it might never happen.
You're doing quite well all things considered! Definitely take frequent breaks at this point to rest and dissipate the tension.
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Victoria
Oud Addict
Posts: 48
Registered: 1-24-2023
Location: Odense, Denmark
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Jody Stecher | | I did watch the video. I'm talking about what appeared on all the sites selling things. See my next post and click to enlarge.
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Ah that was a funny misunderstanding on my side The text in that rectangle
translates to:
"Using our cookies we offer you the best shopping experience possible. This includes matching offers as well as saving your preferences. If this is
okey with you, simply click "Let's do that" (green button). By doing that you accept the use of cookies for storing your preferences, statistics and
marketing."
| Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka |
Making the angle of the oud to your body larger might help.
Your arm should be able to rest on the oud without bringing your elbow all the way to the instrument.
While I haven't seen Navid's courses, from what I know of him he is a good teacher so I suspect that's not the problem so much as the limits of
two-dimension representations of three-dimensional events. There's only so much you can learn without direct feedback.
If you grew up around the oud and saw it being played in person all the time, you might have enough visual memory to imitate what you have seen more
easily. I've had a number of students who grew up around the oud and they usually get the basics of holding the oud and the risha movements much more
quickly.
Trying to learn only from video, especially prerecorded videos, is very challenging for someone who didn't grow up seeing it played. I just taught a
new student today and being able to reposition her hands in person took 5 minutes; it likely would have taken most of 1-2 lessons to achieve it by
giving only verbal feedback. If she was trying to figure it out on her own with no feedback and just prerecorded lessons it might never happen.
You're doing quite well all things considered! Definitely take frequent breaks at this point to rest and dissipate the tension.
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It is impossible for my arm to rest on the oud if the risha is to be on top of the pickguard even on the part of the pickguard closest to the
soundhole. If I rest my arm on the oud with the inner elbow joint on the edge, my hand is above the large soundhole. I have quite long hands and arms
and this makes it all worse.
No matter how I position myself even with a larger angle my arm is floating in thin air whenever the risha is above the pickguard unless I bend my
wrist so much that I am almost getting carpal tunnel syndrome which I am beginning to experience symptoms from.
I wish I was able to attend actual lessons but that is impossible where I live.
What I did notice today was that I have been resting too much on the back of the chair and when I situated myself in a more straight fashion the oud
stayed more firmly in place. Nevertheless, I am not able to rest my arm anywhere if I am to keep my risha above the pickguard. It is not possible no
matter how I position the oud. 
Also, I found this video of an oud player who plays where I like to play:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUy3y0fqxN0
But how on earth can she do that without making countless scratches? There isn't even a pickguard on her oud. Maybe I should practice not actually
hitting the soundboard and play outside the pickguard area. Or maybe I should look for another oud in the long run since I already invested a lot of
time in this instrument. Like this one on the left compared to my oud:
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