John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
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Disappointment with Ghadban Oud
Salaam/Shalom/Shlama/Merhaba/Parev Fellow Udis,
I wanted to report a very disappointing experience with a Nazih Ghadban oud.
Having heard about Nazih's reputation on this and other forums, I bid on E-Bay on a Ghadban "1022" oud built in 2001. I ended up winning the bid (and
getting a fast education on the nasty, cut-throat nature of E-Bay that brought out my worst hyper-competitive personality!) with a $1,050 bid (made 2
seconds before bid closing).
I went to pay for and pick up the oud, which was about 30 miles from where I live. I was extremely disappointed with the quality and sound of the
instrument. The quality of wood and craftsmanship in the peg box and tuning pegs was especially low--the pegs kept slipping as I played. The sound
was very thin--like a Turkish ud, but without the high-quality workmanship.
I felt that the oud was nowhere near the "concert quality" it was advertised as. In this case, though, I'm absolutely certain that there was no
intent to deceive me; this was more about inexperience on the part of the seller. The seller was EXTREMELY nice and understanding, and did not hold
me to the deal.
Two thoughts:
1) Although I know that the 1022 is the "bottom of the line" instrument made by Ghadban's shop, I still think he shouldn't cheapen his name by making,
putting his name on, and selling such a poor quality instrument.
2) I will never, EVER buy another oud without first trying it out!
I will wait to buy another for a few years, until I can (B'Ezrat HaShem/Inshallah) take my family to Israel, and buy an oud from the Palestinian
builder, Joubran of Nazareth. 
All the best,
John "Udi Yohanan" Erlich
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samzayed
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 11-1-2003
Location: Chicago, IL
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John, sorry to hear you felt that way. I am a proud owner of a Ghadban oud, and I have played several of his instruments. From my experience, as
well as others on this forum, Mr. Ghadban has a great reputation for his instruments. His oud are very high quality.
I don't think you should be critical of Mr. Ghadban since you don't know what happened to the instrument between the time it left his shop (2001?) to
now. Do you know for certain that the oud was not misused, or modified by someone other than the maker?
Was this oud with the pickup (plug in bowl) that was on e-bay a few months ago?
This thread has a similar situation http://www.arabicouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=1971
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Greg
Administrator
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I agree with Sam. This story may have similarities to the recent sad tale of the butchered Shehata oud sold from Malaysia to an unsuspecting US buyer.
In that case, it was made reasonably clear that the "culprit" was not the maker of the instrument.
John's post, however, does not canvas such a possibility.
I do not doubt John's sincerity and his disappointment at finding the oud was not of the expected standard.
But he offers a complete defence of the e-bay seller and attributes all blame for the perceived shortcomings of this instrument to the maker.
I doubt that anybody can make such assertions without knowing for sure the complete history of the instrument.
I have visited Nazih Ghadban's workshop in Ras-Baalbeck and tried several of his ouds. All had excellent tone, playability and workmanship.
I don't think it is reasonable to attack the good reputation of a highly regarded luthier, based upon a quick evalaution of a single instrument of
unknown history.
Regards,
Greg
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palestine48
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 6-9-2004
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i think there are some rules in ebay or insurance prgrams u can pay a little extra for so u know you are protected from fraud.
P.S. I am palestinian as you can tell from the name and I would love, I mean to get an oud oud from palestine. I want to help support the arts and
the economy there in any way I can, so if you can get me information on Jubran and his ouds. I would trully apreciate it.
I have never been to my homeland and I hope to make a pilgrimage soon, violence or not so I would like to know where to go so I can get one of these
ouds or at least have someone get it for me.
thanks,
Rami
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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Registered: 6-4-2004
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Greg you are defenetly right on that one.
But still.. thank god he's been able to retreive his money because then you could only sympathise with the persons to whom that hapens. Try to put
yourself in that situation and it becomes hard to find who's to blame.
I dont doubt Nazih's worksmanship as his ouds are played and endorsed by true professionals. He regularly checks this site and Iam shure he will
explain himself.
Also was this the original owner? was he aware of the history of the 3oud?
In the end tho.. all is well and everything is in order has this story finishes good and you can thank god for that.
Thank you for the information.
Samir
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Greg
Administrator
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| Quote: | Originally posted by SamirCanada
Also was this the original owner? was he aware of the history of the 3oud?. Samir |
It is a very good thing that John was able to view the instrument prior to paying out his money. If that had not been possible, he would have ended up
with an instrument that he was not happy with. This is always the great risk when buying an instrument "by remote control" from an unknown entity.
I remember seeing this oud on eBay and I did notice that the shams (rosette) looked a bit like plastic.
I remember doubting if it had in fact been fitted to the instrument by Mr Ghadban, as claimed by the seller.
Perhaps others on the forum will recall what was stated in the eBay listing in regard to the origins of the instrument,
Regards,
Greg
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oudman
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hi guys
i have a few things id like to say. if this is the oud that i think john is talking about, it was my oud originally. Contrary to johns description,
the sound of this oud was not thin at all, in fact it had a great bassy sound. As far as the slipping pegs, I never had that problem - but that is
something that can be easily corrected.
It also had a fishman SBT-E classical guitar pickup installed. I played with this oud for about 2 years at haflas and was very happy with it. i only
parted with it because of financial reasons at that time.
Now id like to add that ive been playing oud for over 15 years, if the oud was as bad as john describes, it wouldnt have lasted for 2 years in my
posession.Id also like to say that i have been dealing with Mr Ghadban for a couple of years and he is an absolute pleasure to deal with. He makes
concert quality instruments and i have never been unhappy with his work.
In the meantime, i am attaching a clip of the sound of this oud (i used this clip when i was selling the oud originally and mike actually posted the
clip for me with 2 pics)- i ask the members of the forum to judge if the sound is "thin".
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Mike
Super Administrator
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If you were going to pay that much for that oud, why didn't you just get one directly from Mr. Ghadban himself? I agree with the guys here, I don't
think it's fair to judge his work when you had an understanding that it was a second hand oud. Who knows what happened to it after it left his shop?
That is totally unfair to Mr. Ghadban. I have seen photographs of Nahat ouds that look horrific. Does that mean the Nahats were terrible oudmakers?
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Nazih Ghadban
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 5-25-2004
Location: Lebanon
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the Truth
Hi Friends
I am wondering why Mr John Erlich didn’t call me about his oud
Before buying his oud and posting his article to know the truth.
I would like to clarify :
1-I assure that Oud 1022 is not yet sold it is in my warehouse
2-You can see it in my current production http://www.oudnazihghadban.com/users/current.asp
3-The date of fabrication of oud 1022 is 14-1-2004
4- All my ouds made during 2001 didn’t reach the serial number 1000
5- Each one of my oud has a certificate of fabrication in which I sign all its charecteristics and my signature
6- I think Mr Erlich has to claim and to lodge a formal complaint with the authorities against the vendor (I assure his oud is forged )I am ready to
help him and to give him all documents
At whom are interested in my Ouds and Buzuks , there are two ways to buy one of them:
1-By sending an email to info@oudnazihghadban.com
2- Or by visiting my workshop at Rass-Baalbeck, Lebanon
3-My instruments are exposed in my site “ http://www.oudnazihghdban.com”
Thanks for all people who didnt accept as true what Mr Erlich said about my ouds, I am sorry about the farce of Mr Erlich who was fall as victim of a
forger.
Nazih Ghadban
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Nazih Ghadban
Oud Junkie
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Location: Lebanon
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the pics of oud 1022
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Nazih Ghadban
Oud Junkie
Posts: 167
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Location: Lebanon
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the back of oud 1022
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Stefan Andalus
Oud Maniac
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All of you might like to know that the instrument in question is now in the capable hands of a Greek professional concert oudist in the LA area. He
absolutely loves it, and compares its sound to his other instrument - a Nahat.
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wfspark
Oud Junkie
Posts: 166
Registered: 3-7-2004
Location: San Antonio Texas
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confused
| Quote: | Originally posted by Stefan Andalus
All of you might like to know that the instrument in question is now in the capable hands of a Greek professional concert oudist in the LA area. He
absolutely loves it, and compares its sound to his other instrument - a Nahat. |
Okay. What's going on? If
the sound of the oud matches the pics, my question to you Mr. Urlic is what do you define as thin. That oud does not sound thin to me. When did you by
that oud? I'm not trying to doubt you, I just have questions. Thanks. Happy ouding from San Antonio Texas.
William F. Sparks
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
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Greetings All,
Regarding Mr. Ghadban and his ouds: First of all, if I believed that Mr. Ghadban's ouds were generally of poor quality, I would never have posted my
message--it is a waste of time to criticise a generally bad oud builder. On the contrary, I assume that his ouds are by and large excellent and that
he cares about quality.
I also trust the honesty of the seller. As I said, I am convinced that there was no attempt to deceive me. I examined the instrument carefully,
including the luthier's plate pasted inside. I saw no evidence of tampering. And, generally, I found his behavior totally honorable.
I played the instrument myself (live) and found the sound quite bright and thin, like a Turkish oud. It had none of the deep, warm sound of my
Shehata. The instrument looked exactly like the oud in the photo posted by Mr. Ghadban (and the instrument on his web page which of course I checked
before bidding on the oud in question). However, when I saw it up close, I was disappointed with quality of the wood, especially the tuning pegs,
which were roughly milled and of a softer wood than those on my Shehata (and other good instruments). On this point, the seller (and his Greek buyer
in LA) and I must simply agree to disagree.
I may be a victim here of nothing more than my own expectations. Given Mr. Ghadban's reputation, I really believed that I was going to buy an
instrument that might become my "first" oud.
Unlike the seller--whom I personally like--I am a performing professional oudist. My uncle is half-Lebanese, and someday, Inshallah, I will have the
opportunity to visit Lebanon and try and (and hopefully purchase) an oud from Ustad Ghadban in his studio.
Peace to All,
John
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
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Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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By the way, Palestine 48, I think I still have the phone number for Joubran (I talked to him on the phone in 2000). Please e-mail me if you want at
shalomsalaam01@hotmail.com and I will try to get it for you.
Maasalaama,
John
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samzayed
Oud Junkie
Posts: 485
Registered: 11-1-2003
Location: Chicago, IL
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Sorry to say this John, but I think you have an ulterior agenda with these posts. I really don't believe these stories. Either you are making some
of this stuff up, or you don't know anything about a quality oud.
You say you are a victim of your own expectations? That's a very condescending statement to make. You keep defending the honor of the seller,
making comments on Mr. Ghadban's reputation, and mentioning another oud maker here and there. Hmm. . . I smell something here.
Salamat.
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Greg
Administrator
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Registered: 7-22-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by John Erlich
... and someday, Inshallah, I will have the opportunity to visit Lebanon and try and (and hopefully purchase) an oud from Ustad Ghadban in his
studio.
Peace to All,
John |
John, this must be your lucky day.
Iberia (Spain) airlines fly from San Francisco to Beirut. The discounted (coach) fare is US$864. Car and driver rental in Lebanon is usually US$100
per day. One day should be sufficient time for you to get to and from Ras-Baalbeck (60 Km north of Baalbeck in the Bekaa Valley).
I will personally pay for your return flight and car fare (as above) provided you personally visit Mr Ghadban in Ras-Baalbeck within the next two
weeks and purchase one of his ouds. I will transfer the funds to your bank account as soon as I have confirmation from Mr Ghadban that you have
satisfied your end of the deal. (He doesn't know about this yet, but I will inform him upon your acceptance)
All you need is a current passport. You are able to purchase your visa upon arival in Beirut.
You have 24 hours to accept or reject this genuine offer.
Peace to you.
Greg
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palestine48
Oud Junkie
Posts: 448
Registered: 6-9-2004
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Hey Greg, I do not think this maybe possible, even though it is a good idea. It will validate some things that may seem murky.
But back to my point. the reason why it may not work is because john mentioned he has ties or has at least been to israel. If he has an israeli stamp
is on his passport, then the lebanese officials will deny him entry into the country. sorry, trying not to make this political but u might need to
think of an alternative idea. Personally im awed with nazih's ouds and hope to afford one someday so id want to see the validation.
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Nazih Ghadban
Oud Junkie
Posts: 167
Registered: 5-25-2004
Location: Lebanon
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hi Friends
I am very upset for this farce and for what John Erlich has said about me
and my instruments. I have shown you that this oud is not number 1022.
If the oud has the number 1022 in it, it is forged. Please can the new
owner or the past owner tell me if that is the number shown or if it is
some other number. If it is some other number and it is made by me, I stand
by the quality of the oud and ask why John Erlich defamed it.
I think John Erlich is only interested to put the tittle of his farce in evidence
so all people could read it and change their opinion about my instruments
but he didnt succeed because everyone who wants to hurt others failed
and all his bad words and works ruturn to him.
thanks God!we still have justice in this world .
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tezza
Oud Addict
Posts: 47
Registered: 10-17-2004
Location: Dubai
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Nice call Greg. I'm a little bit disappointed that there seems to be some people on this great forum defaming what are honest and well-respected oud
makers. It’s especially annoying coming from someone who claims to be a 'performing professional oudist'. John, you might get paid to play the oud,
but you're not acting very professionally. You could easily have emailed the oud maker and found out more about the history of the oud in question
before buying. You could easily have emailed the oud maker after deciding not to buy the oud and enquired about the oud in question before defaming
him. The only 'victim' here John, is Nazih Ghadban, who you owe a big apology to.
As Greg says:
I don't think it is reasonable to attack the good reputation of a highly regarded luthier, based upon a quick evalaution of a single instrument of
unknown history.
Enough said. I hope you take Greg up on his offer. Lebanon is a wonderful country and now that winter has passed, the drive to Baalbek should be quite
lovely. And I hope you can approach Mr Ghadban’s workshop with some humility that you haven’t managed to display here.
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
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This topic is closed.
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