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Andy
Oud Junkie
Posts: 314
Registered: 10-5-2004
Location: MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: excellent
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oudmaker Yildirim Palabiyik
There is a new oud web site from oud maker Yildirim Palabiyik from Izmir. I'll try to find out where he learned to make ouds etc. The site is located
at: http://ouds.atspace.com
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Monty88
Oud Junkie
Posts: 135
Registered: 8-15-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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his instruments look fantastic. I would like more info on this builder. Anyone had any experience?
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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The site looks really inspired by Spyros and Dimitris's site. none the less his ouds are stuning.
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spyros mesogeia
Oud Junkie
Posts: 896
Registered: 9-10-2003
Location: WASHINGTON DC
Member Is Offline
Mood: play my ouds
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I can see now that people start to copy our site.....interesting.... ,well,what can I say,maybe they want to take a look to Dimitris's instruments too....anyhow,each flower has his own parfume,each oudmaker has his
own style,I don't think that a site makes the diference,even if it is the same,I am sure that the oudmaker that has this site has his own ''parfume''
on his sound.I am sure that people knows what they want,and if they want an instrument from an specific oudmaker they will choose by the sound and the
quality of the instrument.I wish to our new friend to be a concourent that will respect the instrument as all of us,and wish him luck with his site
and his worshop.Dimitris has allready his reputation,and people is that will judge him by accepting or not Dimitris's instruments.The only thing that
matters for Dimitris is the instrument,the oud.As for me,believe me,is the most wonderfull thing that I have in my life.I only wish to God,when I
will die one day,if there is Paradise,for me will be If I will have the possibility to continue to studdy this wonderfull instrument....The
''uti''-oud-ud.
Best Regards to all from Greece
Spyros Koliavasilis
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
Member Is Offline
Mood: big band envy
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I have contacted one of the listed sales people on this site and asked them to change their layout/design so it is not a flagrant copy of dimitrisouds.com. I hope they take the time and make the changes. It is very easy to create a web site these days, there is no need to copy
other people's work so closely.
mavrothis
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al-Halabi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 364
Registered: 6-8-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Mavrothis,
You are perfectly right to bring this plagiarism to their attention. The copying of others' work without acknowledgement extends, unfortunately,
beyond web layout. Just a month or so after Viken Najarian introduced his electric oud I saw replicas of it in a store in Istanbul, produced by a
local maker. I was surprised by the rapid imitation of his model and mentioned it to Viken. He was taken aback but realized that there wasn't much he
could do about it.
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Andy
Oud Junkie
Posts: 314
Registered: 10-5-2004
Location: MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: excellent
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Unfortunately this maker seems to have started off with a less than good begining. On ebay, Pyramidshop copied some my words from my site "The OUD is
played and enjoyed throughout the Near and Middle East, North Africa and is gaining a following in other parts of the world, also it is fretless and
has a deep beautiful mellow sound like no other instrument." This is my creation and at first I was botherd by it, then I emailed him and thanked him
for copying my words, I was honored. 
To follow up on the price, Gokce said the price is $1000 and I'm sure transportation charges are extra. From what I understand the oud maker learned
his craft at a University.
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
Member Is Offline
Mood: big band envy
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Yeah, this is all unfortunate and not very impressive. One of the sales people I contacted from this site wrote back and apologized. Apparently, a
web "designer" was hired to make the site, but really just ripped off different sources, mostly dimitrisouds.com, to do it. Not very imaginative.
Anyway, the sales person promised to try and fix this problem, so we'll see. I'm going to keep an eye on the site and see if any changes come about.
I'm definitely not honored by this at all.
mav
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David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 629
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Devon, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Just noticed that they have stolen parts from my site too. 
David
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rourourou
Oud Admirer
Posts: 8
Registered: 12-2-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hello
I find this oud wenderful...
any body have edea abaout sound?
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Andy
Oud Junkie
Posts: 314
Registered: 10-5-2004
Location: MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: excellent
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I was going to mention that you could email the people listed in the contact info but I see that the site is under construction.
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farukturunz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 569
Registered: 8-16-2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Member Is Offline
Mood: hopeful
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A modest contribution dealing with ethics
No need to explain that every individual who attempts to participate at a group, first assumes some ethical rules will warranty his or her rights.
Visa versa all groups stipulate members to obey general ethical rules. This is a sort of mutual expectation. All kind of human groups demand respect
from every member towards all the other's rights and stay loyal to the general ethical merits. I have a serious concern about the controlling
mechanism of this group. If only autocontrol is expected to be in use, I must state that it is not satisfactorily valid. Being ultimatelly regretfull
I will scrutinize my membership to this group, if messages violating other's rights are not criticised like this case. Plagiarize of a web site can
not be approved, of course. I agree with all the blames. I also would like to remind to all attenders of this group: I had contradicted an untrue
announcement dealing with socalled "price winner" oud but no one (including the maker of that oud) made any comment except one asking me to give more
information. Only an un-innocent silence concealed that shame afterwards. I would like to bring to all's attention that unjust rivalry is taking place
in some maker's benefit very often on this forum. If deceiving the forum members is seen "principally normal" then the only thing I can say is "all
yours and be blessed!"
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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I dont think the maker you are refering to is able to respond mr. Turunz.
Wether he even visits these forrums is another question? Then I think its normal not to expect him to awnser something he has no Idea about. This
Claim of winning a price wasnt made by the maker himself...? Did you read a member's posts saying it won the said price? Could it have been just some
kind of rumor or misunderstanding? Is there the possibility that you were not involved with some kind of contest they had for arabic ouds?
I understand what could make you think that some makers are benefiting from good relations with the members here. Is there ANything wrong with that?
Your integrity remains untouched mr. Turunz BUT...
This website on the other hand is Theft.. not only from one site but many other members's sites here. They probably would have said it was fine to
take there material if they had asked them.
I dont think you can compare the 2 issues Sir.
Maybe you are friends with this person wich in this case you are entiteled to take there defence. But you should know that they have responded to
members here by saying they would hire a different web developer. So in the end nobody has said that the maker was involved and to speak for myself I
think he makes beutifull ouds. Lets just say that they perhaps didnt make a good choice with there website developers but in no way did anyone say it
was the makers responsability. It shure is the maker's responsability now that the website changes tho. Ethicaly...I hope you can agree with that.
And in the end its not even up to me to raise this issue I just wanted to say that there is a way that things can get misunderstood over the forrums.
Your welcome to have your own opinion on whatever topic... but its not right if you expect everyone to agree with you on everything. So about the
controling mechanism as you put it. Its more then likely that if your about to express your opinion on something and you are aware that it is somewhat
marginal where most people arent going to agree with you... Then you can expect people to let you know about there own opinion. Thats the ethical
thing to do.
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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You know I've visited a number of websites that contain almost all (if not all) the video and audio files that I encode and share with everybody
here...and not one of them asked my permission. To that I say...who cares.
Let me just add my two cents here. A number of years ago I got into the oud. Being Arabic, I wanted an Arabic oud. At the time there was virtually no
information about the Arabic oud on the net. As a matter of fact, there was the myth that Turkish ouds were far superior to Arabic ouds on almost
every site or discussion board that I looked for information on. After getting my first Shehata oud and a very good Mourad el-Turkey oud I decided to
make this website to give the Arabic oud a presence on the web. Nowhere on this site will you see an opinion by me that says Arabic ouds are superior
to Turkish ouds. Also, as much as many would not like to believe this . . . I make no money whatsoever from those who have profited (and there are
many...Arabic as well as Turkish) from promoting their websites, ouds, CDs, gigs, etc. on these forums. It makes me happy to see hardworking people
benefit from this website.
So Faruk, if you choose to not visit this site...I could honestly care less. Is it supposed to make me feel bad that you will or will not visit the
site? Well I am sorry to inform you that it doesn't.
Again, I don't really need to justify myself. But for those of you who I know have accused me of profiting from this website...I MAKE NO
MONEY from any oudmaker, musician, promoter, or other websites from my website. This website costs me money to maintain, and I do it
happily (most of the time). Some have incinuated that I am in business with Maurice Shehata. I encourage any of you to contact him and ask him if I
get a percentage from any of his sales. If any of you think it is wrong for me to say how impressive I think his ouds are, it is my opinion, and I am
free to have it. If you don't like it, start your own website.
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revaldo29
Oud Junkie
Posts: 418
Registered: 6-24-2004
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: inspired
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I really don't see what the complaint is here. This is a public forum and anyone can express his or her opinion, so long as that opinion is expressed
professionally and with a certain level of class. In my two years here, I have seen all types of oud makers and ouds being promoted here that I would
not have access to any other way. Its true that Shehata ouds are greately promoted on this website but this is not becuase of mike's promotions, its
because most people that purchase a oud made by Maurice Sheata are rather happy with it. I am extremely happy with my shehata and I would recommed it
to anyone else looking for a professional quality arabic oud at a deascent price. Not everyone can afford to pay $2000 for a good instrument.
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farukturunz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 569
Registered: 8-16-2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Member Is Offline
Mood: hopeful
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Deceiving people is not ethical
Why do you try to convince me Mike? You do not care my attendance here any more. You are trying to convince some one else. I want to hear the reason
of your silence whilst the false information and my rejection took place here. You could stay silent again. I did not mention any one's name. My
criticism is on general attitude and general silence against a lie. I was in Amman. Do not try people to understand it as if a contest has been done
covering only Arab makers. I was invited there to lead the workshop. Could it be possible that I had not been informed about such a contest? If you
are insistent on this sort of "explanation" I can get an official letter from the commitee organized the "Oud Days" to proof that no contest has ever
been made.. You did not interfere and make this sort of an "explanation" in time and now seem irritated, why? You are also giving me advise to create
my own forum. You are so generous Mike.
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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I'm not an idiot. I can read between the lines. Do you want me to explain to you what you were trying to say? If you think I'm deceiving people, so be
it. I don't need to explain anything to you. I don't even know how your issue is related to this thread to begin with.
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oudman
Moderator
Posts: 359
Registered: 5-31-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood.
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Mr Turunz
Rather than make accusations against Mike, you should be thanking him. Youre name has been mentioned numerous times on this site, and im sure many
people still wouldnt know who you were if it werent for this site
Mike makes it easy for us to sell instruments, helps artists promote their cds, helps luthiers promote their work and he doesnt get a penny for it. He
pays for this site out of his pocket and doesnt charge us membership fees
I have told Mike numerous times that he should make some sort of profit for all the ouds that get sold here, Shehata, Haluk etc, but he is such a
gentleman, he wont here of it.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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Hmm . . . this discussion is so heated it almost makes me wish I knew what the heck they're talking about.
For what it's worth I think what Mike has done here is great, and I know of at least one person who is buying a Turunz oud because of a post (by me)
on this board saying how impressive it was. For the record, I think Shehata's ouds are decent for the money, but I'm not crazy about their sound.
They're solid and well-made, which is more than one can say for most new Arabic ouds (with exceptions; Ghadban's ouds are nice). Shehata seems to
spend a lot of time on fancy visuals and not have a very deep understanding of sound production. This is just my opinion, which I'm free to state
here; if anyone else has a different opinion, they're free to say whatever they like--I won't be offended (unless you call me names). If Mike was
trying to promote Shehata, he would censor this post. see if he does.
I remember the pre-mikeouds days . . . and we're definitely better off because of his vision and hard work.
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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You know...I don't have very many rules here. Actually, Greg recently asked me to write up a code of conduct of sorts and have everybody agree to it,
but I refused to do it. People are free to say what they want to say here as long as they are polite to each other. Inevitably, disagreements will
arise, and luckily, for the most part, people have been able to treat each other with respect and the debates resolve themselves. I trust this will
continue to happen in the future, and if issues arise, we'll deal with them accordingly. Having faith in the civility of the people who visit and
participate here is a good thing in my opinion, and that's why there's no code of conduct. The only real rules (unwritten btw) I have here are be nice
to each other by respecting each other and don't diss Farido.
Brian, I disagree with your comment that Mo's ouds are "decent", but like I said, you are entitled to your opinion. If you think somebody who was
taught oudmaking by his dad, who in turn was an apprentice to Gamil George, has a lack of understanding of sound production, then you are free to do
so. I personally think that is absurd, but that is my opinion.
Anyway, the only reason I am even posting in this thread is because somebody chose to attack my ethics. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to sit back and
take that quietly. I hate to toot my own horn here, but a number of oudmakers (turkish as well as arabic) have benefitted from this site, and yes,
including you Faruk. And like I said, that makes me happy, and I don't expect anything whatsoever in return. For Faruk to make comments like,
"Being ultimatelly regretfull I will scrutinize my membership to this group" and "If deceiving the forum members is seen "principally
normal" then the only thing I can say is "all yours and be blessed!"" shows me a total lack of gratitude. I'm not expecting his gratitude, but I
also was not expecting personal attacks either. As a matter of fact, I have a lot of respect for Faruk as an oudmaker, as does Maurice. Maurice told
me that himself by the way. I get a number of emails from people looking to purchase ouds. Whenever they tell me that they are looking for a Turkish
oud, Faruk has been one of the names I mention as a top Turkish oudmaker with a very good reputation. That is why this is pretty disappointing to me.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this topic.
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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Okay, I lied. I'm not completely done with this thread.
Faruk,
I just re-read my initial response in this thread. I noticed that I was terse and somewhat rude. I take back the comment about not caring if you visit
this site or not. I should not have said that, and for that I apologize.
Mike
Now, I am officially done with this thread.
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Andy
Oud Junkie
Posts: 314
Registered: 10-5-2004
Location: MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: excellent
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Well, after reading all this I sincerely hope that everyone will just refrain from posting negative remarks. All I was trying to do is inform the
group that we now have another oud maker. I felt that I was being attacked for posting the site. If I offended anyone, sorry.
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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Not at all Andy.
This website is about a good maker. There isnt anything wrong with sharing it.
Nobody will blame you if its so turns out that it the web developpers copied another site...That would be non-sence. Like you said earlier they could
have stolen parts of your website even. But you dont have to be sorry at all. Well thats just how I feel. Iam shure everyone else could assure you of
this tho.
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farukturunz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 569
Registered: 8-16-2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Member Is Offline
Mood: hopeful
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Apology
To all gentlemen who involved in this boring thread: Thanks to the enlightening comments of all, I became fully convinced eventually that I showed
ingratitude to your efforts in behalf of me. I must thank to all of you for your exertion, if I had not done so far.
I have been involved in a vast searching to understand the possibilities for creating harmony between the parts of an oud and making some 800 ouds so
far, but I must admit that I have neglected to be prudent enough to understand the harmony between the moderators, members and the founding persons of
the net groups. As far as I have been backed by these gentlemen, how come I dare to show ingratitude towards their good treatment! Please give it to
my inexperience. I should not insist on the issue up to the point that Mr. Mike's confession would have been inevitable. I am so sorry Mike! You don't
know how a tenderhearted man I am. I am fully regretful for pushing you to that point. I beg you: please forgive me and please do not dismiss me from
the group. You are great.
Possibly every one witnessing this debate will admit that I have never written any rude words (I am always so polite) so I am not apologizing for.
Anyhow please forgive me if I caused any discomfort. I am positive.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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Sorry to keep this thread going . . . I just wanted to clarify that when I said that Shehata's ouds are "decent for the money", I meant that they are
worth about what he charges. They're not some great deal, but they're not overpriced either. I regard the Shehata as a professional instrument,
though not at the high end of that class. I wasn't implying that they are bad instruments, but they don't sound like Nahats or Georges. If they
did, they'd be worth a lot more. Maybe they will in 30 years, who knows?
I'm open to changing my opinion if/when I hear an outstanding Shehata oud. I really really wish that Shehata's ouds were great, because I would
desperately love to find an excellent instrument in the $1000 price range--I know of none.
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