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David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 629
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Devon, UK
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Oud/Barbat in Iran
Hi Everyone
I just wanted to ask whether anyone knows of any CDs by Iranian oud/barbat players. I visited Iran last year and ouds seemed to be quite readily
available, although they were certainly not as popular as the tar or setar. However, Iranian oud players seem to be strangely under-represented on CD
compared to the number of tar CDs available (especially as the oud may have originated in Persia!).
The only Iranian oud CDs I have are by Hossein Behroozia-Nia ('Kohestan' and 'Midnight Sun' , although he lives in Vancouver. I know he also has a couple more CDs and some cassettes available. I understand there
is a CD by a guy called Shahidi, but as far as I remember the sound quality is really bad with an awful echo.
Does anyone know of any more?
David
P.S. You can check out Behroozi-Nia at http://www.barbat.us and his CD 'Kohestan' is available at http://www.iranmelody.com. The 'Midnight Sun' CD should be fairly easy to track down.
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
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Mood: Happy
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Hi David,
Check the Oudism Page to hear a few tracks for Shahidi. I think I read before that he is in Colorado. I believe it was Doc
O. who has his information.
Take care,
Mike
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
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Iranian Oud players
I'm afraid I don't have any contact info about AbdulWahab Shahidi. He should be in his 80"s, and seems to have dropped out of the music
scene.
I find the oud on many recordings in ensemble, but did not find any solo oud recordings while I was in Iran either.
Arselan Kamkar plays oud on the Kamkar Family recordings, and Mohammed Reza Shajarian often has an oud player in his recordings and concerts.
I saw a few ouds in Iran and met Mohammed Arafati in Tehran, who makes some of the best ouds I've ever seen and played.
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
Posts: 724
Registered: 8-15-2003
Location: Sweden
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I saw a picture once of AbdulWahab Shahidi playing an oud by Fadel.
Best wishes
Ronny
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boulouti
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 12-3-2003
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oud/barbat in Iran
You'll see a portrait of the artist (born 1921) at http://www.ece.ubc.ca/~mohammad/persianmusic1.htm
He is on the Ocora LP Musique Persane OCR 57 (rec August 1971) together with Jalil Shahnaz (tar) Asqar Bahari (kamanche) Hasan Hahid (nay) and Hoseyn
Tehrani (tombak). He both sings and plays oud. A beautiful singer by the way. I also recently stumbled on a cassette issued in his name by Caltex
records (C213) which contains two long Dastgah with what sounds like the same ensemble as above.
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boulouti
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 12-3-2003
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oud/barbat in Iran
Sorry folks - addition and correction - Hasan Nahid is the nay player's name. And if your'e web-searching, Shahidi's name is spelt:
Abdolvahhab Shahidi
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kamran
Oud Lover
Posts: 20
Registered: 2-17-2004
Location: NY
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Iranian Oud-makers
Just to add to the discussion here on Iranian oud makers... there are a few well known oud makers in Iran, including the abovementioned Mr. Arafati --
I now own one of his instruments and (although perhaps biased) can testify that I think they're among the best I've found, and I really love
the instrument I have from him. The other name that is often mentioned in Tehran is Nariman. From what I understand there are two Narimans, a father
(now deceased) and his son. They are Iranian Armenians, and well known as luthiers and teachers in Tehran. The father's Ouds are apparently
excellent work, although I only was able to find one instrument in a shop, and thought it was only about average, but that might not have been a
representative work. I don't know much about his son, other than the fact that he's still active as a teacher -- I had heard he was an
instrument maker, but saw no examples of his work in the shops I visited.
There is a yahoo-group dedicated to the Barbat (the Persian name for Oud) which does have some pictures of Mr. Arafati and some of his works, and some
d/l-able files, but much of the discussion and content is about Arabic and other Oud players.
Shahidi does have some solo records, or rather, solo accompaniment to his singing. He's not that famous as an instrumentalist, but more so as a
singer and songwriter. I've not seen any of the solo works on CD - I remember hearing them as a child in Iran on cassette.
Kamran
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David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 629
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Devon, UK
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Dear Kamran
Thanks for this detailed information. Could I just ask you whether you have the addresses of any shops you visted in Tehran that sell ouds/barbats? I
am travelling to Iran in May and hopefully I will get time to browse in some shops. [Richard Hankey (Dr. Oud) has already given me Arafati's
address]
Perhaps you could also give me some more details of the Yahoo group that you mentioned.
Best wishes
David
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
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Kamran,
We would love to see some pics and some sound files of Arafati's oud that you have. 
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nadir
Oud Junkie
Posts: 329
Registered: 12-29-2003
Location: USA
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dont forget to bargain in iran dave !!
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
Member Is Offline
Mood: big band envy
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Hi guys,
I just met some musicians in Brooklyn from Iran, and one girl has a beautiful oud by Mr. Arafati. It was really well made and played very sweetly.
The string length is just a touch longer than a Turkish length, and the sound is heavenly. Definitely recommended. He also seems to have very nice
cases that are affordable. I'm looking into ordering one for a Turkish oud. 
If anyone ever gets a chance to play one of his ouds, go for it!
mav
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sara_vatanabadi
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 12-4-2005
Location: iran
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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hi every body
i'm sara and i play oud.actually i 'm studieng irainian music at art university in iran.i can help u to get informations about
oud.my oud is arafati too.
sara
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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Hi Meeka,
I heard Ostad Shahidi perform in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2001 (if I remember correctly) and managed to get his phone number for some aspiring
Denver area oudis.
I might still be able to dig it up. Master Shahidi teaches only in Persian (not confortable enough with his English to teach oud in English).
Khoda Hafez,
John
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David Parfitt
Dear Kamran
Thanks for this detailed information. Could I just ask you whether you have the addresses of any shops you visted in Tehran that sell ouds/barbats? I
am travelling to Iran in May and hopefully I will get time to browse in some shops. [Richard Hankey (Dr. Oud) has already given me Arafati's
address]
Perhaps you could also give me some more details of the Yahoo group that you mentioned.
Best wishes
David |
Arselan Kamakar teaches oud in the Kamkar,s school in Tehran and is very helpful. Between all the Kamkar family they know pretty much every
instrument maker, player and teacher in Iran, I bet.
Khune Kamkar
3 Nakisa st. 3rd floor
Kavoosifar ave. A
Tehran, Iran
9821 873 5986
info@kamkars.net
Www.Kamkars.Net
There is a large community of Iranian muscians on the Orkut network
https://www.orkut.com/GLogin.aspx?done=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orkut.com%2F
there are several music groups, including a Barbat group. Most of it is in Farsi, but some english is used.
the Yahoo Barbat group is
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/barbat/
Here'sis a picture of M. Arafati at an exhibition
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Baharian
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 12-5-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hello,
While Mr. Arafati's ouds are of descent quality, his prices are outrageously expensive and you will end up paying alot for them. The next question one
needs to ask himself when buying an oud in iran is if he wishes to buy an Oud or a Barbat. The barbat has a much longer neck as well as on an face
extension), 5 courses and is tunned much similar to arabic as cgDAG. The oud is just like any other arabian oud and so why would anyone buy an oud in
iran when they can buy it in an arab country prehaps of better quality.
As far as builders go, again I would not recommend arafati because his prices are very high. Master Ghanbari as most iranians agree is one of the best
instrument makers. unfortunately because of his old age he has retired and furthermore, its illegal to bring his pieces out of the country. He has 2
students, Mallekshahi who lives in karaj (2 hour drive from tehran, or go by metro) or the Mohammadi brothers(who have a workshop in esfahan).
goodluck, and really, remember to bargain and go with an iranian for when they smell foreign blood, there is no telling how much you'll get ripped
off.
khoda hafez
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
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Mr. Baharain -
I don't understand what you consider expensive. When I was in Tehran in 2001, Arafati was selling his ouds for $600. I would consider this a bargain.
I have not seen the equal of his quality of workmanship and mastery of playability and tone for less than $2000 elsewhere, including Egypt, Lebanon or
Turkey. He is an honorable man and does not enagae in any sort of rip off, indeed I found few merchants in Iran who were not generous and
straightforward in dealing with me. If you intend to promote Mr. Ghanbari, please do it without making inappropriate remarks about someone else.
Perhaps you could also identify yourself and present your credentials for making these judgements?
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Baharian
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 12-5-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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My dear fellow, I have not insulted anyone here. I know that even 8 years ago, he was selling ouds at a price double that of ghanbari with fairly the
same quality. Your statement above only tells me that you have not dealt with many oud makers in iran.
secondly, merchants in iran, specially instrument sellers, raise the price to double if not triple when they hear that it is going outside of the
country. This is a fact which any one who has dealt with them would agree.
lastly, i am not promoting any one here. frankly, i have nothing to lose or gain wether this lad buys an instrument from arafati, or mohammadi or
whomeverelse.
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sara_vatanabadi
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 12-4-2005
Location: iran
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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hi again
i'm afraid that i'm not good at english.plz don't laugh at mee.
do u khow mr.ebrahimi he plays oud too and hi is my master.he has his own methodes of training and he pleys professionaly.he
tamed the oud
khoda hafez(bedrood)
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David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 629
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Devon, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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| Quote: | | merchants in iran, specially instrument sellers, raise the price to double if not triple when they hear that it is going outside of the country. This
is a fact which any one who has dealt with them would agree. |
This is a sweeping generalisation and utter nonsense. I bought a tar and a setar in Iran, and paid the price that was on the label. When the owner of
the shop found out that I was English and interested in Persian music, he threw in a stack of teaching materials (books, cassettes) too.
David
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Wm. De Leonardis
Oud Maniac
Posts: 50
Registered: 1-9-2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
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Mood: AOK
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All,
I thought I'd interrupt the rising tension with a bit of music...
Here’s a portion of Nariman playing oud with tombak accompaniment. The piece itself is over thirty minutes, so I can’t post it in its entirety. I
thought you might all enjoy hearing a small bit, though. I have other recordings of Persian oud; however, they are on cassette and my tape deck’s
been broken for a while. When I can, I’ll post some other recordings.
Caltex records has a few Shahidi CD’s available, including one that’s solo oud. Unfortunately, as someone else mentioned, there is a terrible
amount of echo on the recording. Shahidi is a terrific oud player but he is much more known for his voice and compositions, so there is little of him
just playing oud. All the Caltex stuff is worth owning, though, and last time I looked, they had a deal to get all of his CD’s for a real cheap
price. A few years ago he released a CD called “Come With Me,” which is terrible—the producer added slick keyboard arrangements.
Hossein Behroozia-Nia’s recordings are fairly easy to find. He also plays with the Dastan ensemble and Dastan trio. I highly recommend any of their
recordings, which you can find at places like amazon.com.
Cheers,
William
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PSab
Oud Lover
Posts: 24
Registered: 4-21-2005
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If I may comment on something here, It is fairly common practice for iranian merchants to raise the price when they ralize it being bought by a
foreigner or going to another country. This is common practice i think for all countries not just iran (specially on items bought over the internet,
forexample i remember there was a website a while ago saz o nava whose prices were very high). This being said, I think that it is unfair to judge mr.
arafati in this way. It is true that his prices are somewhat more expensive than other makers but so is the quality of his products. first of all, he
is one of the greatest oud makers in iran who has been doing this for a long time, and secondly everything is more expensive in tehran. You mentioned
maziar malekshahi and mohammadi brothers, the prices for the mohammadis are half of those of malekshahi, this is because of location and that his shop
is fairly new and he has not built up a reputation. Yet mr. mohammadi raises his prices by 10% everyyear.
Finally, I wish to ask Dr. Oud what he thinks of ouds made by master Ghanbarimehr?
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by PSab...Finally, I wish to ask Dr. Oud what he thinks of ouds made by master Ghanbarimehr? |
I have not seen M. Ghanbarimehr's ouds. i was in Iran month, including Esphahan, Shiraz and Karaj. I have nephews in SHiraz who are musicians and
they didn't know where to find ouds there. One of their friends gave me a cassette tape, but he said it was Arabic. I went to a music bazaar in Shiraz
and there were no ouds there. I found a music store in Esphahan, but no ouds or barbat. I did find a long necked barabt in Tehran, but the quality was
poor and not worth the $200 (140,000 tooman). I found Arafati through Arselan Kamakar and Arafati's ouds are worth every penny (or tooman). He has
solved the msytery of brace locations through mathmetical analysis and every one of the 5 ouds he had were among the best I've ever played, and I've
played a few. Unfortunately by the time I found him I had spent my instrument budget, but I did get a wonderful santur from Dairush Saleri - the best.
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
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I think quality instrument makers deserve every penny (or toman) they get too.
I didn't know Ghanbari made ouds. I only knew him as a fine (the finest in Iran) violin maker. He also builds very fine kamanches and has innovations
in building setars and tars.
Also Nariman.mp3 (posted kindly by Wm. De Leonardis) is not the same Nariman as the instrument maker.
Mansoor Nariman is the musician most responsible to give life to oud playing in iran starting in the 1950's or so (the oud was dead from the Safavi
era on in Iran). His real name is Eskandar Ebrahimi Zanjani. His father was a setar-tar teacher and he picked up the oud at 18. There were no teachers
so he basically learned from whatever media he could get from the neighbouring countries (I guess Arabic movies would be one, very poplular in the
50's-60's as my father attests). He then wrote a letter to Mohammad Abdol-vahab to tell him more. He also corresponded with Monir Bashir as well. My
father has some of the 'Golha' tapes where people like Nariman and Shahidi played weekly. The series under varying names contains treasures of persian
music played by some of the best, and I hope some one takes the time to remaster them.
Anyway, Nariman the instrument maker was of Armenian descent and he died in the 60's I believe, while still in his prime. He is considered an old
school master, with people like Yahya, Eshghi and so on. As I mentioned before he built staved tanboors without a mold.
http://www.sazmuseum.ir/english/detail.asp?id=373
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Jonathan
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1582
Registered: 7-27-2004
Location: Los Angeles
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Nariman was mentioned in an earlier post. I know that there is an I oud player named Mansour Nariman--is he related to (or one of) the oud makers
mentioned above? Any further info would be appreciated.
There are some tracks that include Mansour Nariman on this site:
http://astaneh.com/page12.html
search about one third the way down the page. Unfortunately, the oud tends to be relegated to the background. Still, beautiful music.
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
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Mood: Mahoor
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As I said they are not blood related. Mansoor's (the oudist) real name is Eskandar Ebrahimi Zanjani from Mashhad (I think) and the oud maker's full
name is Nariman Abnoosi who was of Armenian descent, lived in Tehran most of his life.
At age 14, Mansoor, already a good musician, becomes interested in reviving the oud and in search of an oud comes to Tehran where he meets Nariman the
luthier. Nariman was already famous for his instruments (tanboor, chogoor, setar, ghanoon etc) and he builds an excellent oud based on some profiles
he had and gives it to Mansoor. Eskandar gives himself the allias 'Nariman' after this out of respect for Nariman the luthier.
This is about 50 years ago and that oud is still played by Mansoor.
http://www.hamshahri.org/hamnews/1383/830328/world/008841.jpg
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