radixfc
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strange oud photos
 hi everybody!!
I´ve seen with my first post some interest in my lute from morocco, so I´ve made new photos to show. Let me explain: It´s a lute much thinner, but
maybe 6 or 7 cms longer than a standard arabic oud, it has 6 single strings (so it´s not a kwitra-qitra with 4 double strings). I bought it at
marrakesch, in a little shop where a oud bulider had lots of ouds, but most ofthem special for women...
what do you think of it????
let´s see the photos:
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radixfc
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another
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radixfc
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anoooother
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radixfc
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and the last!!!
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David Parfitt
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It's certainly not an oud, that's for sure.
David
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zalzal
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How is it tuned ??
Can you post a clip ??
What is the name given locally ??
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Musa
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That's certainly an interesting looking instrument! Al-Halabi - what do you think this is? It reminds me of "guitar-lutes" that I have seen and played
- a lute bowl with guitar stringing and fingering. I recall playing one at a luthier's booth that sounded very nice. Perhaps this is a
"guitar-kwitra."
I find the innovation in hybrid type instruments from North Africa to be fascinating. Also interesting are women's instruments (see the women's oud
thread). Middle-Eastern countries are stereotypically viewed as being repressive towards women. Yet, they produce specialized ouds and other
instruments, as well as entire stores, that cater to women's needs. In the world of Western instruments, if a woman has trouble handling an
instrument, the general attitude is "tough!"
Salamat,
Musa
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Elie Riachi
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Hi,
Let us face it, they are repressive for the most part. Grant it, they may not be when it comes to the woman entertaining the man.
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al-Halabi
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This instrument is not a traditional Moroccan lute. It does resemble, though, some medieval lutes known from pictorial illustrations. Some luthiers
today are reproducing historical instruments that look very much like this. A few examples can be seen on the web site of the Spanish luthier Jesus
Reolid:
http://ret007ei.eresmas.net/reolid/i-vihuelas.html
This instrument could be such a reproduction, or a copy of one. Or it could be a hybrid instrument. Its shape is similar to that of the older Turkish
lavtas, which also have an elongated body and shallow bowl. I think that the guitar lute is a bit different. I am attaching a couple of photos of my
lavta and guitar lute for comparison.
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al-Halabi
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Lavta
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al-Halabi
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Guitar lute
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al-Halabi
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Guitar lute
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radixfc
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Hi everybody!!!
thanks for your attention.
I also think it´s an hybryd. I had also a lute-guitar (german) some years before and it´s very different. this lute was tuned as an oud when i got
it, and a friend of the maker played some songs with it as it were a simple stringed oud.
maybe I´ll meet Jesus Reolid next month... he´s making a reconstruction of the lutes and viols of a gothic fachade of the cathedral of my hometown
(pamplona).
i post a photo of my lute-guitar (now my uncle has it)
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zalzal
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I think Al Halabi is right, the instrument posted by radixfc is not a traditional moroccan instrument......it is a traditional hybrid algerian origine
instrument.
In the Tafilalet region south east of Morocco, and not far fm Marraqush, where Radfixfc found the instrument, the local contemporary music is called
Al Baldi. One branch of AL baldi music is played with rythmic support of the snitra a local mandoline known as the "Algeria" from its country of
origin.
You know, algerians are grat inventers of instruments like kwitra, algerian mandol etc etc.
So we can say that the instrument posted by Radfixcf is a snitra or an "algeria", a traditional hybrid instrument....
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zalzal
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Here you have a photo of a Snitra with a right guitar pegbox slightly inclined with a peared bowl
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Paul007
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Hi, radixfc
that is interesting instrument. How does it sound? Can you put a sound clip?
Hi al-Halabi,
does your instrument sounds like mandolin? Can you upload a sound clip?
I am just wondering whether they sounds any closer to the Chinese pipa.
Thanks!
Paul
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al-Halabi
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Paul,
The Turkish lavta uses nylon and wound silk strings like the oud, and it sounds much like an oud, although the timbre is a bit different. Mandolins
have a more metallic and bright sound because of their metal strings and much smaller string length compared with the lavta.
When I have a chance I will post a sound clip. The albums of Tanburi Cemil Bey's recordings issued by Traditional Crossroads include a taksim that he
did on the lavta.
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kasos
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Hi. Very interesting thread. Al Halabi, I particularly enjoyed seeing pictures of your lavta - a very beautiful instrument.
As to Paul's request for recordings on the lavta, there's also a fair amount of lavta playing, including a fine lavta taksim on 'Letter from
Istanbul', an album by Derya Turkan and Sokratis Sinopoulos available on Golden Horn records http://www.goldenhorn.com
Speaking from personal, same-room experience (since I own both a lavta and a pipa) I would suggest that the sound is very different. Among the many
structural differences that would account for this - (1) the Pipa is somewhat longer; (2) the pipa has single strings rather than courses; (3) the
pipa is much heavier than the lavta, having a very thick single piece pear shaped back , while the lavta has a much lighter staved construction (4)
when playing the different registers the pipa probably has more prominent high notes than the lavta, probably because of its longer scale length -
however, on the low notes, the lavta is more resonant - I'm no acoustician, but I would think that the reason for the latter is because the lighter,
staved construction of the lavta seems to carry and amplify lower range vibrations better.
Take care all, Mark
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zalzal
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Chinese female takht, fm left to right, rabab or kamandje, oud, i do not know, qanoun.....
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kasos
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Re zalzal's photo: The Chinese names: far left - erhu, middle left, pipa, far right, gu-zheng (long chinese zither). I can't make out what the
middle one is, either - given the colorful, many toned costumes, it's hard to tell exactly just what shape the instrument's resonator is - perhaps
some relative of the dutar, with a small pear shaped resonator and long neck? Relatives of the central Asian dutar are found in western China,
especially around Kashgar, an old silk road trading stop....
Zalzal, you're absolutely right in pointing out the similarities between Chinese instruments and their Middle Eastern counterparts- however, in each
case, there are differences too. I've addressed some diferences regarding the pipa in an earlier post in this thread. As to the gu-zheng, it's a
very long instrument - typically over 4 feet long, sometimes well over 5 feet (the Japanese version, known as the Koto, can be over 6 feet) - as such,
I think, on average, the gu-zheng would be longer than a kanun...
Playing style for the gu-zheng is different as well - there is no provision for quarter tones per se, and certainly none of the elaborate levers used
in the Turkish kanun. Chinese music is much more diatonic in emphasis - in fact, far from providing for quarter-tones, the typical tuning for a
gu-zheng is a pentatonic major scale, with a G or D tonal center - so in some material ways, there's even less options than on a chromatically tuned
West European guitar. What helps make up (in terms of scope for creativity) for these traditionally imposed stylistic limits is a playing style
that allows for various types of pitch slides, by way of ornament. One of the ways this is accomplished is by one hand pressing down on the string
on the unplayed side of the high, trestle-style, single-string bridges, that (as a group) run in a diagonal line across the width of the instrument.
The note is plucked by the other hand on the opposite side of the bridge in question, while the string is in this depressed position, then the string
is allowed to return to its normal, shorter string length, thereby creating a slide up into the intended pitch. It's a beautiful, haunting effect,
which is immediately recognizable as one of the quintessential sounds of the Far East....quite different from anything I typically hear people do on
the kanun (much as I enjoy the latter instrument in its own right)....
All the best, Mark
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zalzal
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Thank you Kasos, the mystery of this photo i took last year in Paris is now solved....merci
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kasos
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De rien... meilleurs souhaits, Mark au Canada...
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