SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
When performing Live
My question is about performing live with a regular microphone.
I have done a few gigs so far where I had to use a microphone. I experianced feedback problems since I was with a band and I had to have a strong
signal to the mic.
Not long ago I had the oportunity to perform on my own but using a microphone again to fill the room better. I experianced some more feedback problems
again although I didnt need the mic to be verry strong the simple presence of the sound hole near a mic would give strong feedback.
Anybody has a trick to avoid or minimize this? What kind of microphone should I use?
|
|
|
jshead
Oud Junkie
Posts: 101
Registered: 10-2-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peace
|
|
The trick is to have the speaker in front of you i.e. the microphone.
also, highly directional microphones helps.
of course, turning volume down can sometimes help.
or you can get a notch filter to select out the feedback frequency.
But the top item is the main thing.
|
|
|
billkilpatrick
Oud Junkie
Posts: 563
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: what?
|
|
samir - is your oud missing its rose by any chance? i've heard that a rose will inhibit feedback.
jshead - do you mean place a speaker between you and the microphone?
|
|
|
SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
bill- I have tried with both types ( single hole no rosette. 3 holes rosette, 3 holes no rosette) Its all the same problem.
Jshead- When you place the speakers in front of you its hard to hear yourself. So it makes it hard to concentrate on what your playing.
|
|
|
excentrik
Oud Junkie
Posts: 291
Registered: 5-19-2004
Location: Refugee Status...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Now Here, Nowhere...
|
|
I found that using directional condensers and pointing them at the point where the neck meets the body is an ideal way to ward off feedback and
achieve the ideal sound. That is also how I record Oud, Buzuk, and classical Guitar- it works out pretty well.
Tarik
|
|
|
jshead
Oud Junkie
Posts: 101
Registered: 10-2-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peace
|
|
| Quote: | | jshead - do you mean place a speaker between you and the microphone? |
I added a picture to show the proper setup. I did sound for a number of years and still do occasionally including last summer for Trio Joubron.
This is pretty much how you have to set things up.
J.S.
|
|
|
jshead
Oud Junkie
Posts: 101
Registered: 10-2-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peace
|
|
| Quote: | | Jshead- When you place the speakers in front of you its hard to hear yourself. So it makes it hard to concentrate on what your playing.
|
Professional sound people use monitors to solve this problem. We regular people have to fiddle with location, how we aim the spearker and volume.
Often reflected sound will let you hear enough. There are tiny inexpensive monitors that you can buy from places like Musician's Friend if live
performance is a major thing for you. Also there are small headphones you can use.
And of course, increased microphone directionality will help.
J.S.
|
|
|
billkilpatrick
Oud Junkie
Posts: 563
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: what?
|
|
that makes sense - much more than what i thought you meant.
i presume samir's observation on how difficult it can be to hear what you're playing - with the speaker and microphone in this position - can be
alleviated by moving close enough to the back of the speaker to hear what's coming out the front but not so close as to interfere with the microphone
or create an echo in the oud's sound chamber.
i've toyed with the idea of getting a pickup fixed to some of my instruments but i've always ended up dropping the idea - especially as i sing and
play. in theory - haven't bought anything yet - a good microphone, amplifier and speaker seems to be the best and simplest solution.
thanks - bill
|
|
|
billkilpatrick
Oud Junkie
Posts: 563
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: what?
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by jshead
We regular people have to fiddle with location, how we aim the spearker and volume. Often reflected sound will let you hear enough. There are tiny
inexpensive monitors that you can buy from places like Musician's Friend if live performance is a major thing for you. Also there are small
headphones you can use.
And of course, increased microphone directionality will help.
J.S. |
had an opportunity - my first - to play with a drummer (my youngest son) and apart from microphone and speaker placement i was very conscious of
holding - what is, to all intent and purpose - a large, deep, concave dish in my lap ... picking up every sound in the room and bouncing it back to be
picked up the microphone. the little experience i had with feedback and electric guitars when i was younger was put down to ill-defined, dark and
mysterious forces at work in the universe ...
i don't know if there's a smilie symbol to indicate "d'-oh!"... but it was nice to actually hear what i was playing. i think this new electricity
stuff will catch on.
|
|
|
Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
|
|
I also have worked in sound reinforcent (PA system operation) and learned that feedback has many factors - speaker proximity and volume (output),
microphone gain (input signal strength), bass attenuation and microphone types. Since the oud is a very bassy instrument, you should reduce most of
the bass tone control. Gain can be reduced by increasing the number of microphones, pickups or using a combination of both. The combination of
pickups with microphione works well to provide the most realistic sound of the instrument while the multiple inputs allow output volume to be achieved
with less input gain. Microphone placement can be effective by aiming the microphone at an angle to the face to reduce direct soundwave feedback. I
like 2 mics, one at the neck, another behind the bridge, with a miltiple transducer piezo pickup on or in the oud. (budget allowing). Microphone
configuration can be a factor as well. Condensor microphones (more $) exhibit less feedback response than diaphram mics (less $). Cardiod microphone
iinput patterns are better at rejecting influence of off axis sound sources. Then there's the room itself, with reflecting walls bouncing the sound
back at your oud. Some times just slightly changing the angle of the oud face can help.
|
|
|
eliot
Oud Junkie
Posts: 252
Registered: 1-5-2005
Location: The Gorges
Member Is Offline
Mood: Aksak
|
|
FWIW, I've tried over 20 different microphones on the oud for live situations - I've found that the Beyerdynamic M88 (original, not the "TG" edition)
works the best at capturing the sound of the oud while minimizing feedback. A bit hard to find, though, and not the cheapest dynamic mic option. I
always carry one on me when gigging, in case the venue doesn't have a suitable mic.
|
|
|
wfspark
Oud Junkie
Posts: 166
Registered: 3-7-2004
Location: San Antonio Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud entranced!
|
|
Mics
I've found that the Electrovoice PL20 with a pop screen works as well.
William F. Sparks
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
