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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
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After a several-months hiatus from this oud, I'm back at it!
I mentioned in a previous post that I had something unique in mind for this oud. I was able, with the generous help of a world-class classical guitar
maker in my area, to make what's referred to as a "sandwich" top soundboard. Two soundboards (in this case, Western Red Cedar) are thinned to .55 mm
and glued to a core of aerospace composite material known as Nomex. It's a honeycomb-shaped fabric that once glued to the skins, becomes incredibly
strong. The soundboard ultimately is about the same thickness as a typical wood soundbaord. One major difference is that the sandwich top is about 40%
lighter weight than a typical wood soundboard. The result of this is a louder instrument, with more robust sound. This may very well be the first
sandwich top oud, I'm not sure, so the results should be interesting. I really do not know what to expect, but I'm anticipating similar results that
guitar makers are getting from this method. More information on the sandwich top (also called a double top) can be found here: http://www.reynoldsguitars.com/dtop.shtml
The "skins" are really thin, and extremely fragile before glue up.
The Nomex honeycomb.
The center of the soundboard is reinforced with a strip of wood for the soundhole opening and bridge.
Vacuum clamping the soundbaord
After glue up.
After gluing on the second skin
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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Here are some pics of the rosette. The rosette, and any face inlay would ideally be done before making the sandwich top. The reason for this is that
the top skin is very thin once the sandwich is made, and any inlay cavity would expose the Nomex, making gluing the inlay a more difficult job, since
the honeycomb would capture a large amount of glue.
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Jason
Oud Junkie
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Very cool idea. Is the Nomex material very expensive or does it just require a lot of labor? I was surprised to see that the double top is a $1600
upgrade on a guitar. It will be interesting to see if you feel the double top was worth the extra effort.
All my friends love the curly maple strip you put in your old Sukar 
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Jameel
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The Nomex isn't that expensive. You can get enough for one guitar for about $25.
$1600 is pretty expensive. But his guitars are about $3500. The guy that helped me sells his for $5500, with a sandwich top and sandwich back, with
Brazilian or Blackwood sides/back. This is relatively low for a top-notch classical. Some guys are getting closer to 10k. Can you believe that?
Here's a luthier's joke for you. What did the luthier do after he won the lottery? Built guitars until the money ran out....
A yes, the "skunk" oud! That Sukar was a nice instrument. Post a clip of it when you get a chance.
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sidjones
Oud Lover
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Salam Jameel:
This looks like a great experimental project. I Think it's good to have a flexible mindset about oud design and construction. My first oud was
designed to have a parabolic cross-section. This means that the only rib that was symmetrical was the center rib, and all the other ribs had unique
shapes, albeit they came in pairs of mirror images so to speak. Richard Hankey (DrOud) saw this oud in 1971. Although it is about 14 inches wide,
the depth is only about 5-1/2 inches. The benefit of this shape is that it is thin enough to be played while the player isstanding on a stage. I
continue play this 35-year-old oud regularly. One of the reasons it is one of my favorites is that its back is made of Vermillion (Padauck) and
Yellowheart and Ebony for a striking contrast.
Regards,
Sid
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Hosam
Oud Junkie
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Very nice Jameel, I am sure this oud will sound awesome! I have seen triple top Nomex guitar top on one of the renowned luthier site on the web. The
soundboard hole and the bridge area only benfit from the third layer for reinforcement. I guess the strip will do the same function, although covering
more area than needed. Looking forward to hear the results for this great project.
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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Sid,
Welcome to the forums! Glad to have another oud enthusiast and maker on board. I'd love to see some pics of your instruments. Please post them. Your
input here would be greatly appreciated.
Hosam,
I'm hoping it will have a really excellent quality sound. I've seen a few different ways of doing the Nomex. The guy I learned from learned from the
guy in I think Sweden or Norway that developed the technique to begin with, so I trust his method. I don't know enough yet personally to say whether
or not the strip covers more area than needed. It's especially difficult to say with the oud since the face geometry is so different than a guitar,
what with the bridge being much lower on the face than on a guitar. Classical guitars also have a tad higher tension (not much really) than an oud. No
doubt I'll be refining this technique for oud if this experimental one shows promise.
I should add too that Charles Fox is using a sandwich top with a high arch on his Ergo guitars, so much so that there are no braces! Now wouldn't that
be an interesting experiment with the oud?
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Hosam
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Jameel, did you use 0.040 inches thick for the Nomex? Can you give us more details about the thickness of the Cedar skin tops? Is it the same
thickness or thinner near the edge? What kind of glue did you use? More detail about your vacuum system and gluing jig.
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abusin
Oud Junkie
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Location: Manchester England
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Hi Jameel,
again a very interesting project as always from you, looking forward to the completion and the final look and soud clips,
all the best Jameel 
Awad
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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Veneering the neck
the core is limewood, the veneer is cherry.
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Jameel
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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using used bicycle inner tubes to clamp the veneer.
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Jameel
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assembling the different components
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SamirCanada
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Oh wow...
just beutifull Jameel. Its going to have a killer sound I can feel it.
Thanks for taking the time and posting.
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Sam Dib
Oud Lover
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Registered: 10-26-2004
Location: Montreal, Canada
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Cutting ribs
Hello Jameel,
I really admire your work, especially your last oud is a work of art.
I was wondering which method would be best to obtain precise ribs and construction for the oud bowl.
I though of cutting the ribs before and then proceed with bending of each
Or, bend them and then shape them using a plane.
Is there one of these techniques that is better? offers more advantages in term of precision?
Thanks
Sam
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Jameel
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Thanks Samir and Sam.
Sam, I bend my ribs while they are still rectangular, then shape them. But you can shape them first. I've done both. Most people do the former. Its a
little easier to keep from twisting if the ribs are still rectangular. But I twist my ribs any way, so it doesnt make a big difference.
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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Pegbox joint
Cutting the pegbox notch with a veneered neck posed a challenge. I usually do this with my miter saw while the neck is still square. But with the
shaped and veneered neck, cutting the notch accurately requires some serious fixturing if done with power tools. I was a bit impatient on this one and
decided I didnt want to spend an afternoon making a fixture for this operation. So I came up with a simple fence for jigging a small fine-toothed hand
saw to cut the angled notch. It worked excellently, and is more predictable than a power-tool based fixture, at least for me.
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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For this oud, I decided to put a finish on the soundboard. This is not very traditional among historical ouds, but I wanted to bring some color and
life to the western red cedar, plus provide a bit of protection. I'm not crazy about using a finish on the face, I like to stick to the tried and true
traditions of the best makers, but I thought I would give it a try at least once. I'm not fan of thick glossy finishes on the face, and I wasn't about
to slather on a rubbery thick film of varnish or whatever. I started a thread over at the MIMF Forum (http://www.mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX) concerning lute soundboard finishes, since these instruments are also left infinished, but there are a few
makers that use a very light finish or surface preparation. I was intrigued by what I learned and actually employed the burnishing and shellac spit
coat (thin coat) on this oud. See the thread here: thread
So far I'm really pleased with the finish. (see bottom two photos--post finish) I applied two extremely thin coats of 2lb cut shellac with an HVLP
spray gun in two sessions. I used a very wide fan pattern and low fluid flow, for a dry spray that was almost invisible. Just enough to bring a slight
sheen and pop the color of the cedar and face inlay. I finished up by one more burnish with the barron to smooth the surface. I should note that I
sanded the face through 600 grit before burnishing. A light waxing is mentioned in that method, but I don't find it necessary at this point.
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Greg
Administrator
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Jameel, that is Drop Dead Gorgeous.
What a great artist you are. Even the photos of the tools and workbenches are inspirational.
Mabrouk!
Greg
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SamirCanada
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A masterpeice in the works ya Jameel.
Dont think of it any less then that.
Iam extremely impressed by how nicely tight the edge tiles are. That has to be a lot of work. the rosette is carved to perfection.
That bone strip on the brige is a verry good idea wich is going to prevent the strings grooving in the brige.
I love this new pickguard too.
Khalaf oud's are going to be some of the most sought after ouds in the near future the way your work is turning out to be...Salam eidak
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oudplayer
Oud Junkie
Posts: 849
Registered: 5-9-2004
Location: new jersey/ Israel
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hey jameel
all i have to say is your work is horible stop building for real man just stop .
just playen wowweeeee your oud is fabulous. keep up the good work
cant wait for the sound bro
thx sammy
we are lost camels in the desert and wanna find our way to water and the water is in aden
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INFAMOUD
Oud Junkie
Posts: 105
Registered: 9-23-2006
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Hey Jameel,
I am still new to Ouds,But Wow..Now this is truly a masterpiece..It has a simple fresh look too it..But speaks out with a thousand words...Is it going
on sale after you fininsh it?
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
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Location: NJ/NYC
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Bravo Jameel! How do your ouds keep getting more beautiful and ingenious? Very impressive as always my friend, it's hard not to stop and stare for a
while.
Thanks as always for sharing both the images and your experiences/techniques with us. I know we are all anxious to hear this oud. How is the soundboard tapping so far?
Take care,
mavrothis
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SamirCanada
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Great question Mav,
I was also wondering how it resonates to the tapping? what about if you hum in the sound hole?
Also Jameel.... I like this idea of using the Nomex material I think it should sound good.
My question though for you from a builder's point of view is, Do you think it can cut the necessary time to produce a top? I mean would it be possible
to order the spruce or cedar veneer or skin and it would already be roughly right thickness? then all you do is glue it up using your vacum jig?
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LeeVaris
Oud Junkie
Posts: 379
Registered: 12-16-2003
Location: Los Angeles
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Super
This oud just keeps getting more interesting!
So what's up with the bone saddle for the bridge – how's that going to work? Also - I think I see a very unique oud stand there in one of the photos
– are you teasing us Jameel? When do I get to order?
We're all dying to hear this baby! Keep going Jameel. 
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