bahleh13
Oud Maniac
Posts: 75
Registered: 7-18-2003
Location: Riga, Latvia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Majnoun el Oud
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Detail on Rast.
Woah guys, a darn lot happened while I was away, so many things and many topics discussed, I feel totally spaced out!!  Oh well... Since i'm intending to answer to many threads, and at the same
time post a new thread (thanx to TP's idea) might as well do them all in one post.
TP as usual, u have done a great job in taksim again, however, this time i will oblige (and make u happy) by commenting. A Rast taksim needs to be
based on Rast man, u have let nahawand take over most of the taksim. Besides some of your E's are lowered (that is Nahawand E instead of Rast E),
I'm not sure if meant to lower them as part of ur taksim. Oh well, it's not bad, all by all so keep up the good work 
As for Oud without teacher, it is one contraversial topic, coz there are some things u need to be taught and some things u can accomplish on ur own.
From my own experience, I have been learning on my own for 2 years and a "spit", and had no tutoring at all, save for one or two pieces of
advice I received. Most of my learning process was based on listening and observing (either Oud players on TV or myself in mirror reflection).
However, I think I couldn't have accomplished it if i didn't have a full background on music scales from byzantine church music school. So I
guess the hard part of learning lies there, and tutoring would be necessary in this field. If a person has a good ear, he won't find any
difficulties then.
As for Taksims,well, in my opinion they come from emotion rather than stciking musical fragments together. I know I can always play a taksim, but
there's a difference between states. When I compare a taksim i play when I'm not in the emotional state to that in appropriate state (for
example when I'm feeling down and I'm trying to play a happy rast or ajam taksim) I notice one of two if not both: Either my taksim is dry
and somewhat unsatisfactory (to me) or I subconscioucly integrate some tunes that reflect my emotions (like slowing down the tempo and shifting to
hijaz then nahawand). And yes, in my opinion irtijal is definitely more preferable than reading from sheets. I don't feel comfortable with
limitations at all, which is why I still can't read musical scores, simply coz i can't accept the fact that it'll limit me to some
extent.
*glass of water, my mouth ran dry from talking much*
Anyways, back to the main subject, here are some notes I wrote about Rast, which I assimilated from my knowledge about the maqam from listening and
from church music. These will hopefully help the reader/listener and the oud player (who doesn't have much experience) to understand about the
maqam, and I believe they should be helpful for the player to compose his own taksim.
A very important note though: these notes are NOT INSTRUCTIONS!! They should simply be taken as guidelines. Once the player understands them or even
gets an idea about them, he should let his own senses guide him into playing the taksim. Technique isn't important for starters as much as the
scale is. First master the scale then start to enhance techniques.
I attached the following notes as a word document and I hope the people of this forum will find them well prepared and beneficial. Any corrections or
comments are more than welcome. Practice y'all  Peace!
Yours truly,
Basel
P.S. If any of u guys want to reply regarding other threads reply in the relevant thread and I will answer there for sure 
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bahleh13
Oud Maniac
Posts: 75
Registered: 7-18-2003
Location: Riga, Latvia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Majnoun el Oud
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Example
Jesus H. Christ! I didn't expect i wrote that much!!!  Oh well...
Here's a taksim I cooked up with a song in the end as a good example for rast (again take them as guidelines not instructions). I tried to
include as much from the notes I provided as possible, just to make them clearer for the reader/listener, how the notes about the scale are carried
out in playing the Oud. Hopefully y'all will find this helpful.
Mike I hope you'll like the song in the end, coz I'm sure it's one of ur favorites (u said it actually).
And please guys, do post ur taksims/tries in rast, coz then if any comment may be needed, the good listeners (not just me) can help u with it, thus
enhancing ur performance on Oud. To all who want to learn Oud or starters (I hate using the word rookies), Rast is one of the maqams that are
excellent to start with.
And Mike, please don't make me beg!! I request a piece, any piece for u playing Oud, I don't ask u to be sophisticated or anything. I loved
ur "ahbabina ya ein" in farid's talent showcase. PLEASE (prettypleasewithsugarontop) PLEASE!!! Post something!! ANYTHING!! I promise if
anyone even dares to criticize in a non-constructive way he'll be spitting teeth all night 
Peace y'all
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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Hey Basel,
I'll give you this man...you are persistent buddy. I've tried on numerous occasions to give subtle hints through some of my posts that I
don't consider myself an oud player, and I know that I have a long ways to go yet. But apparently you don't believe me, and I couldn't
keep ignoring your requests...especially since you said "with sugar on top".
But seriously, you don't need to threaten anybody here...I'm pretty sure everybody is civilized enough not to say unkind words. But thanks
for having my back anyway. 
Take care,
Mike
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TruePharaoh21
Oud Junkie
Posts: 789
Registered: 3-17-2003
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving the Oud
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I've told you once, and I'll tell you again. You're the maqam guru, pal. I've always appreciated your help in the past, and I
thank you for giving me some advice on the rast taqsim.
I suppose this one is nahawand too, though I mislabelled it. For Rast on C, I have C D E(half flat) F G A B(half flat) C. For Nahawand, I have C D Eb
F G Ab B C. Are these not correct?
TP21
P.S. Mike, I can FINALLY say I have a file of you playing on my computer, and I tell you bro, it's a pleasure. I don't think many of us
consider ourselves oud players (myself included). After listening to this, I don't think Basel is gonna have to defend you against anyone... you
play awesomely, man. You've inherited a beautiful touch to the oud.
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bahleh13
Oud Maniac
Posts: 75
Registered: 7-18-2003
Location: Riga, Latvia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Majnoun el Oud
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MIKE!!!
Awesome man!! And none other than my all-time-fave Banadi Aleik in the end. The only reason u "seem: that u aren't a good player is coz u r
constantly hiding and underestimating urself as a player. I tell u I'm glad I was persistant, and believe me if i tell u, u don't need a gun
nor a tall building Keep up the good work bud I hope this won't be the last post with a sample of ur Oud (sounds
lovely).
TP... Well... U just gave me one correct "NAHAWAND" Taksim. Actually, I'll divide ur taksim to two parts: High scale parts and low
scale parts. The low scale is perfect nahawand with elevated B (gravitation) and lowered E. The high scale part is very close to rast, u just need
more attention to the rast E's and B's. To facilitate the concept to u imagine it like this: U are playing bayati but u finish on C instead
of D. Since u know how to play bayati I'm sure this'll help u fix the faulty E in ur rast. For extra help I'll post a file with rast,
then nahawand, and then a comparison in the low part scale.
First scale u'll hear is rast from C to high C then back to C. Then u'll hear Nahawand, again from C to high C and back to C. Then u'll
hear how rast goes on lower part of the scale and how nahawand goes after that. Perk your ears for the rast E, which is 1/4 tone higher than Nahawand
E. Practice, I'm sure u'll catch on quick as usual Peace
Yours truly,
Basel
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TruePharaoh21
Oud Junkie
Posts: 789
Registered: 3-17-2003
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving the Oud
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Basel, read the post above again. Thanks bud.
TP21
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zeyad
Oud Addict
Posts: 47
Registered: 9-22-2003
Location: Ohio
Member Is Offline
Mood: love the oud
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Rast
Hi all,
Basel, thank you for your explanation on Rast maqam. It is very helpful.
Here is my attempt. I tried to play Rast and from 1:58 until 2:02 I tried Nairuz maqam. Basel, did I get it right? your comments, as well others, will
be appreciated.
TP21, your Rast much better than your old one. It shows more of the characteristic of Rast. I tried a long taqaseem, after listening to your advice of
recording and imagining that there is no mic around ….. cool idea. what do you think of this long taqaseem, does it hold together or falling
apart?
Thank you guys.
Zeyad.
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bahleh13
Oud Maniac
Posts: 75
Registered: 7-18-2003
Location: Riga, Latvia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Majnoun el Oud
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Zeyad...
 YES YES YES
That is rast. Don't tell me u didn't know it before i posted the notes, coz u r quite good man. The only correction i have to do is not in
playing, rather than the fact than ur nairuz lasted till 2:22, not 2:02 (Maybe in the start of the third minute ur B got fuzzy, maight want to listen
to it and judge it urself). It is very integrated and very emotional, I like it a lot  We got one good example of rast, and now we await the rest
TP I'm sure u'll definitely come up with something great coz u always amazed me and I don't think u'll fail to do so this time
Awaiting all the Oud lovers to start posting. Peace y'all.
Yours truly,
Basel
happy to see progress
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bahleh13
Oud Maniac
Posts: 75
Registered: 7-18-2003
Location: Riga, Latvia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Majnoun el Oud
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TP...
I forgot to answer u man, yes u r right about the scales, I'll repeat for the sake of repetition:
Rast:
C D E$ F G A B$ C
Nahawand:
C D Eb F G Ab Bb C
(or G Ab B C in the hijaz integrated variant)
The audio files aught to help u a lot, though I'm sure u don't need them coz u got what it takes to do it by urself
Practice then surprise me
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zeyad
Oud Addict
Posts: 47
Registered: 9-22-2003
Location: Ohio
Member Is Offline
Mood: love the oud
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Hi Basel,
Thank you for your feedback. Yes you are right nairuz lasted till 2:22, not 2:02. "it was misspelling". Basel, I am looking for a music
sheet of Yamsaharni "Um kolsom's song" I would appreciate it, if you can help me with this. I like the clip where you were singing
Yamsaharni.
Thank you.
Zeyad.
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bahleh13
Oud Maniac
Posts: 75
Registered: 7-18-2003
Location: Riga, Latvia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Majnoun el Oud
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Sorry man
Zeyad my man I wish I could help. Fact is I can't read musical scores, and I learned the song by ear, with help of my bro, who is a true Oum
Kulthum fanatic. He didn't even let me make minor changes or mistakes when I'm playing. Maybe another guy in the forum may help and if not,
maybe u should try to start it off by ear, like many of the guys in forum do. I was searching the net and couldn't find anything for the time
being, but if I find anything I'll definitely let u know Take care man.
Yours truly,
Basel
P.S. Thanx a lot for the compliments man it really wasn't anything
deserving.
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TruePharaoh21
Oud Junkie
Posts: 789
Registered: 3-17-2003
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving the Oud
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Just for clarification, in my taqsim, I played it with an A instead of Ab. I guess it's the B$ and the E$ i have to correct?
Thanks in advance.
TP21
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bahleh13
Oud Maniac
Posts: 75
Registered: 7-18-2003
Location: Riga, Latvia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Majnoun el Oud
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TP...
Yup pal, u got that right. Actually the fact that u played ur taksim with A instead of Ab made me divide ur taksim into the two parts, the nahawand in
lower scale, and rast (almost) in high scale. Ur B$ is somewhat close to how it shoud be played, but it needs some work. But concentrate on ur E$. U
can play it and I know that becoz u play bayati and all ur E$'s in bayati are played correct, thus u can play rast, provided that u place ur
finger on the exact place on the fingerboard as u r playing bayati. Not too complicated man when it gets to applying what u read Awaiting ur "surprise"
Yours truly,
Basel
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zeyad
Oud Addict
Posts: 47
Registered: 9-22-2003
Location: Ohio
Member Is Offline
Mood: love the oud
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Low and high scales
Basel, I am confused about the low and high scale thing. For me I thought TP did just the opposite. I thought he did just fine on low scale. Or maybe
you and I see what PT played the same, but low means high to me. I noticed the same thing about your comments on other issues. So, to make me
understand, I will ask you this: is "Rast, C, Do" and "Dokah, D, Re" low ? and "Kerdan, c, do" the high? Or is it the
opposite?
PS. Thank you for your help and excuse my ignorance.
Zeyad
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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Hey guys,
I got some footage of the Rast maqam. Look for some new videos soon.
Take care,
Mike
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bahleh13
Oud Maniac
Posts: 75
Registered: 7-18-2003
Location: Riga, Latvia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Majnoun el Oud
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Zeyad...
Buddy i'm glad u asked to clear out the confusion. When I wrote C, i meant the baseline C, in arabic it is called Qarar. Whenever I referred to
the Jawab C, I said High C. In this case High C (sometimes I wrote upper C) is one octave HIGHER than the normal/low C.
As for TP's attempts, I did mean that his lower part of the scale (that is C-D-E-F-G) was totally correct if he was playing Nahawand. The actual
scale he was playing was like this: C D Eb F G.
The upper part was closer to Rast, that is:
A B$ C D E$.
His quartertones were a bit fuzzy, he hit them higher than the should be, yet lower than the normal unmodulated tone (meaning he played somewhere
between B$ and B and E$ and E).
As I might assume, if u understood my comments right, you are thinking that when I refer to "upper" and "lower" parts, I am
referring to their relation with the strings (the low tones are on the upper strings while the high tunes on the lower). I had the idea in mind, but I
voted agaist it, coz I don't like to mix the scale with Oud techniques, since I'm only teaching the scale here (with few tips on Oud).
Anyone who can play an instrument can be using my notes to aid him learn Rast (again I am not teaching, but helping). If I used the terms only related
to the Oud strings, then a person who for example plays keyboard defenitely would mix everything up, and won't be learning anything (and I get
cursed as well ) ).
Hope this clears out everything.
Mike thanx for the footage pal. I hope that this won't be ur only participation, and that u find my notes useful to learn Rast. Peace!
Yours truly,
Basel
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zeyad
Oud Addict
Posts: 47
Registered: 9-22-2003
Location: Ohio
Member Is Offline
Mood: love the oud
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Basel,
I see... It was so good that you used the words "Qarar and Jawab". It was very helpful and easy to understand. Thank you. I am learning a
lot.
Zeyad
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