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journeyman
Oud Junkie
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Jamil Gergis (Gamil Georges) ouds
I posted a request for information on Abdo Dagher and his ouds but have had no replys so far. So, how about Jamil Gergis? I'm trying to educate myself
on these older builders. I'd like to find out who they were, how common are their ouds these days etc. (I know that they are hard to find) In fact,
if anyone has information on ANY of the earlier oud builders of large or small renown I'd love to hear about it. I have found next to nothing as far
as information on these people, although the Arhat family apparently lives in Sao Paulo, Brazil now. Fascinating!
Peace,
Roy
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David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
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Hi Roy
I would also like to get a lot more detailed information on famous oud builders, as I am hoping to add a section to my website on this subject.
I think that Jamil Gergis may also be known as Gamil Georges - can anyone confirm this? And when you say 'Arhat', do you mean
'Nahat'? (I understand that the Nahat family is now based in Brazil.)
Best wishes
David
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
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¨I think that Jamil Gergis may also be known as Gamil Georges ¨
David, I have video of British program showing Anthony Rooley visiting Gamil (Jamil) in his workshop. I'm not impressed; there are several guys
working on different parts of the oud.
But as Anthony states- this is how it most have been done during the Renaissance in Europe.
I wonder if the quality is realy related to the numbers of employees working on the instrument?
Let me know if you want a copy.
Best wishes
Ronny
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David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
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Hi Ronny
I heard something about a documentary relating to the oud on Channel 4 in the UK - maybe this is the same one? It would be great to get a copy if you
think it is worth it.
To be honest I would be really keen to buy one of the two 'Arabesques' booklets from you (or whoever has them now) if that is possible.
Best wishes
David
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Al Billings
Oud Addict
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Ronny, there's no particular reason why an oud maker can't have a small team of builders, each making their own part. This is like the
German violin workshop tradition and it's a standard method of construction for many modern acoustic instruments. It all depends on the help and
the training. A friend of mine owns a Gamil Georges from the 60's. Najarian built a new top for it because the original was cracked. Viken
transfered all the inlay and marquetry to the the new top. It's a very good oud, well-built and robust, with a Syrian quality of tone, which is
where Georges came from. See photo below. I have a Gamil Georges from the modern shop in Cairo. My teacher spent the better part of an afternoon
handpicking it for me. It does not reflect the beauty of Gamil's work, but after some set-up, it sounds very much like it.
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Zulkarnain
Oud Junkie
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Al
Great Oud you got there! Can you help me find oud like that in Cairo?
Let me know-thanks
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journeyman
Oud Junkie
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David,
Ooops, yes, I meant Nahat. Thanks for the correction.
Roy
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Al Billings
Oud Addict
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You won't find one like that in Cairo anymore--it's 35 years old and Gamil Georges is long dead. That's not my oud anyways--it belongs
to a friend. You can go to the Gamil Georges shop in Cairo that's run by his sons. Their ouds will not reflect the craftsmanship this oud does,
no birds in the rosettes and lots of shell around the sound holes. My teacher brought one back for me after spending an afternoon picking through
dozens of ouds,and I had to do the following: strip the shellac from the top, sand down the neck laminations to make the neck profile smooth, fiddle
with the pegs and pumice the bowl and peghead to reduce the excessive gloss it came with. But you know what? it turned into a very nice-sounding
Egyptian oud, with plenty of body resonance, robust projection, very low action and a nice raw bite to the upper courses. I'll post some photos
and sound samples in a week or so. I think you just have to go and let your ears tell you what is good and be prepared to do a little work. This oud
cost approx. $300.00 US in Cairo. Is it a Nahat? it is not, but it's a very good-sounding and playing oud that won't embarrass you in front
of anyone, and I'm not afraid to take it anywhere because it's very sturdy. Good hunting in Cairo.
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David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
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Hi Al
It would be a pleasure to add some of your ouds to the 'Oud Gallery' on my website if you want to send me some pics.
Best wishes
David
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
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I heard something about a documentary relating to the oud on Channel 4 in the UK - maybe this is the same one? It would be great to get a copy if you
think it is worth it.
This film has more than 15 years....is probably something else on Channel 4.
Is worth a copy. I make one for you.
To be honest I would be really keen to buy one of the two 'Arabesques' booklets from you (or whoever has them now) if that is possible.
No problem but you need patience with me...
Best wishes
Ronny
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TruePharaoh21
Oud Junkie
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The original Gamil Georges was a fantastic oud maker. I believe it was el-Qasabji who told one of my relatives that he preferred Georges' ouds.
I've recently played on one of the ouds of Georges, and to be truthful, it was very sweet sounding and represented what an Egyptian oud should
sound like very well. So, in short, if you want a Georges' oud, try to find Gamil's. I've heard his sons aren't as... hmm,
particular (?) as he is.
Have fun looking!
TP21
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samzayed
Oud Junkie
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Is it true that Farid Al Attrach's oud (the one he's usually photographed with later in his life) was made by Gamil Georges?
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samzayed
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this is the pic of Farid's oud. Is it by Gamils Georges?
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Adel
Oud Maniac
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Hi sam,
This oud was made by Georges Nahat.
Adel
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Ronny Andersson
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Adel
Hi sam,
This oud was made by Georges Nahat.
Adel |
Adel, do you have any clue where this oud is now?
Best wishes
Ronny
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Adel
Oud Maniac
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Ronny,
I have been told that this oud is in the hand of his family in Syria, but I am not sure, I will let you know in a few months as we have been invited
by his family.
Adel
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Adel
Oud Maniac
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George
George, Jamil Georges son is an old man now, I visited him this time, he does not have any of his father ouds, and the workshop is run by few guys who
are putting parts of the oud together, the end result is not great.
I have seen many bad Jamil Georges the father, it seems to me most of the good ouds are out of Egypt.
Adel
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Adel
Oud Maniac
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Re Abdo Dagher
Abdo Dagher never made an oud himself, however, he had people working for him in his workshop in Cairo, and they produced some great ouds, I have one
of them and my friend Anouar has few of them.
His workshop was colsed down few years ago, and he moved it to Tanta, lately he has stoped making ouds.
I have not seen any Abdo Dagher this time in Cairo.
You asked about Jamil Georgy the father, he was one of the great masters of oud making, if fact, for me he his work as great as Nahat, his ouds were
very elegant, beautiful rich tone, warm, I love his ouds, some of his work which I have seen are breathtaking.
He came from Aleppo (Syria)and started his workshop in 1906 in Mohammed Ali Street in Cairo.
Most great oud players bought from him including Qasabjy, Sunbaty, Farid El Atrash, Farid Ghosn......
He used to spend up to 6 months making an oud.
I looked for his ouds this time, but his great ouds has been sold and they are out of Egypt, what left of his ouds is in very bad condition.
I am lucky to have few of his ouds.
Salamat,
Adel
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Adel
Ronny,
I have been told that this oud is in the hand of his family in Syria, but I am not sure, I will let you know in a few months as we have been invited
by his family.
Adel |
Thanks Adel I'm looking forward to it.
Best wishes
Ronny
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Sidi
Oud Maniac
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Hi,
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ronny Andersson
| Quote: | Originally posted by Adel
Hi sam,
This oud was made by Georges Nahat.
Adel |
Adel, do you have any clue where this oud is now? |
As far as I know, that specific oud is still with Farid's nephew Faisal. The last time we saw it, his father Fouad had it along with all of
Farid's most famous ouds. But that was a long time ago.
Here's a picture of my father holding that wonderful instrument:
[img]http://www.fairydise.net/ffrm/AHassani&FouadAtrche1s.jpg[/img]
with Fouad and the King's Oud
This could very well be the most recent photo of that oud. BTW it also happens to be the one Mike skillfully used to decorate this great site.
Sorry Mike...couldn't resist...
-Sidi
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TruePharaoh21
Oud Junkie
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Sidi, any idea what the design is on the back? It seems to be completely random from the angle that we have. Have you heard of what the overall
picture of it is supposed to look like, or should we assume it's random sadaf all over the place?
TP21
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Adel
Oud Maniac
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TruePharaoh,
Do you have any photo's of the Jamil Georgy which you have mentioned?
You asked about Farid oud, it does have Sadaf and bone on the back.
Salamat,
Adel
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Adel
TruePharaoh,
Do you have any photo's of the Jamil Georgy which you have mentioned?
You asked about Farid oud, it does have Sadaf and bone on the back.
Salamat,
Adel |
Adel, what's your opinion about ouds with inlays on the bowl? I'm thinking about ouds like Farid's with literally nothing left of the
wood.
Best wishes
Ronny
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Adel
Oud Maniac
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Ronny,
Too much inlay will kill the sound, also it does not allow the wood to breath,
It makes the oud too heavy and the sound is kept inside, but they are nice to look at if they are done in a perfect way.
Adel
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
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Here an oud with a similiar pattern of Farid's oud.
Best wishes
Ronny
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