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Moe5021
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[*] posted on 5-26-2015 at 04:10 PM


No updated pics? :(
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Brian Prunka
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[*] posted on 5-27-2015 at 09:20 AM


Here are some photos, I hope it is helpful



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Brian Prunka
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[*] posted on 5-27-2015 at 09:22 AM


a few more, different angles



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Brian Prunka
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[*] posted on 5-27-2015 at 09:23 AM


last one:




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[*] posted on 5-27-2015 at 09:32 AM


By the way, I'll note a refinement since the original post. Rather than having the risha actually parallel to the palm of the hand, it is at a slight angle. Not perpendicular, as I had made the mistake when starting out, but just slightly off axis from flat. If you start with the risha flat, then let it angle slightly with the thumb, that's about right.
The finger tips of the 2nd and 3rd fingers touch the edge of the risha, giving an additional bit of control without a tight grip. As noted upthread . . . the grip should be loose, not tight.

I had a discussion with Simon about this and he said it is also important to realize the the grip will change slightly depending on what kind of musical effect you are going for; sometimes you want a lighter looser effect and sometimes you want a very tight precise effect. So don't get too locked into one way of playing.





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hans
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[*] posted on 5-29-2015 at 02:51 AM


Wow, that looks totally different from what i do
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SufianSaeed
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[*] posted on 5-29-2015 at 04:06 AM


thats what i did at the very start of oud playing but i was told many times not to do this , personally it worked great , less much stress on my wrist and it felt lighter even though my attack was stronger than usual .
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Brian Prunka
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[*] posted on 5-29-2015 at 07:10 AM


Quote: Originally posted by SufianSaeed  
thats what i did at the very start of oud playing but i was told many times not to do this , personally it worked great , less much stress on my wrist and it felt lighter even though my attack was stronger than usual .


Can you explain what you mean? What's the "this" you are saying "not to do"? What are you doing and can you post a picture?

The way I am playing is with a nearly straight wrist, there is no stress on my wrist at all.





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[*] posted on 5-29-2015 at 05:12 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka  
Quote: Originally posted by SufianSaeed  
thats what i did at the very start of oud playing but i was told many times not to do this , personally it worked great , less much stress on my wrist and it felt lighter even though my attack was stronger than usual .


Can you explain what you mean? What's the "this" you are saying "not to do"? What are you doing and can you post a picture?

The way I am playing is with a nearly straight wrist, there is no stress on my wrist at all.



First few weeks i played the oud i experimented with different ways of holding the Risha , eventually i held it the way you did in the photo but i was told not to by my teacher recently , maybe its too early but it was really helpful because i have a kinda off small oud compared to my arm length and i grew this annoying habit "which am trying hard to lose" of bending my wrist a bit which gets really exhausting and quite painful sometimes after playing for a while or playing intensely .
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Brian Prunka
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[*] posted on 5-29-2015 at 06:03 PM


Can you explain what it is that is different? Who is your teacher? What did he suggest was wrong and what is the alternative?

As I said, I don't bend the wrist much, actually the angle of the risha means that I don't need to angle my wrist (except slightly since obviously my elbow is not in a plane with the face of the oud).
I can assure you that my approach does not lead to any fatigue or pain, regardless of how long or intensely I play.

I'm not saying I have the perfect approach or anything, I'm always looking to learn from everyone's insights. My initial post here was simply to share an observation (from about 8 years ago!) that seemed to help me. Mike deleted all the photos a while back, and a bunch of people have asked for them. I couldn't find the original photos and, being from 8 years ago, probably don't truly reflect my current thoughts anyway, so I tried to take some new photos.
Perhaps the photo is not totally accurate, as I did it quickly and it's difficult to take a picture with one hand while holding the risha with the other hand.

It's just strange and unhelpful for you to say "I don't do this" and not explain what you mean. Presumably you are not holding it between your toes or your teeth, so what do you mean? What did your teacher suggest was the problem and what did he tell you to do differently?







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[*] posted on 5-30-2015 at 01:09 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka  
Can you explain what it is that is different? Who is your teacher? What did he suggest was wrong and what is the alternative?

As I said, I don't bend the wrist much, actually the angle of the risha means that I don't need to angle my wrist (except slightly since obviously my elbow is not in a plane with the face of the oud).
I can assure you that my approach does not lead to any fatigue or pain, regardless of how long or intensely I play.

I'm not saying I have the perfect approach or anything, I'm always looking to learn from everyone's insights. My initial post here was simply to share an observation (from about 8 years ago!) that seemed to help me. Mike deleted all the photos a while back, and a bunch of people have asked for them. I couldn't find the original photos and, being from 8 years ago, probably don't truly reflect my current thoughts anyway, so I tried to take some new photos.
Perhaps the photo is not totally accurate, as I did it quickly and it's difficult to take a picture with one hand while holding the risha with the other hand.

It's just strange and unhelpful for you to say "I don't do this" and not explain what you mean. Presumably you are not holding it between your toes or your teeth, so what do you mean? What did your teacher suggest was the problem and what did he tell you to do differently?





i totally wasn't criticizing your approach to the Risha Brian , i think you mis-understood me , if was i criticizing anyone by my words i would've meant my teacher for telling me not to do it :) , all i meant was that i used to hold it the way you did in the photos and that my teacher told me to hold in an another way even though this way was more helpful/comfortable for me , i definitely can't hold it with my teeth or toes and i definitely lack the experience & knowledge as to know why would he tell me not do it , i had a lesson today with him and when i asked him he didn't make it clear why not to , as he just gave an "unsatisfied face expression" when i did and he probably only did that since he's into the very classical way of playing oud but i wouldn't know more than that .
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[*] posted on 5-30-2015 at 01:48 PM


No, it's fine, I just want to understand how you are holding it now and what is different.
I don't intend this as any kind of argument, it's just about trying to share actual information. I want to understand what your teacher said to do different. I'm not asking why, just an explanation of what is different. Or if you took a picture showing how he told you to hold it, that would be great.

All of my teachers were very traditional, classical style players, so I don't think that is the difference.




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[*] posted on 5-30-2015 at 02:00 PM


Sufian, I think you are saying your teacher told you not to combine an extremely bent wrist with the grip Brian learned from Simon Shaheen, the grip that both use with a moderately bent wrist, which caused you fatigue but causes no fatigue to Brian. Since I can't quite get a *grip* on this idea, maybe we can take another approach if you are willing. Please tell us what he told you to do instead. How does he hold the risha?



Quote: Originally posted by SufianSaeed  
Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka  
Can you explain what it is that is different? Who is your teacher? What did he suggest was wrong and what is the alternative?

As I said, I don't bend the wrist much, actually the angle of the risha means that I don't need to angle my wrist (except slightly since obviously my elbow is not in a plane with the face of the oud).
I can assure you that my approach does not lead to any fatigue or pain, regardless of how long or intensely I play.

I'm not saying I have the perfect approach or anything, I'm always looking to learn from everyone's insights. My initial post here was simply to share an observation (from about 8 years ago!) that seemed to help me. Mike deleted all the photos a while back, and a bunch of people have asked for them. I couldn't find the original photos and, being from 8 years ago, probably don't truly reflect my current thoughts anyway, so I tried to take some new photos.
Perhaps the photo is not totally accurate, as I did it quickly and it's difficult to take a picture with one hand while holding the risha with the other hand.

It's just strange and unhelpful for you to say "I don't do this" and not explain what you mean. Presumably you are not holding it between your toes or your teeth, so what do you mean? What did your teacher suggest was the problem and what did he tell you to do differently?





i totally wasn't criticizing your approach to the Risha Brian , i think you mis-understood me , if was i criticizing anyone by my words i would've meant my teacher for telling me not to do it :) , all i meant was that i used to hold it the way you did in the photos and that my teacher told me to hold in an another way even though this way was more helpful/comfortable for me , i definitely can't hold it with my teeth or toes and i definitely lack the experience & knowledge as to know why would he tell me not do it , i had a lesson today with him and when i asked him he didn't make it clear why not to , as he just gave an "unsatisfied face expression" when i did and he probably only did that since he's into the very classical way of playing oud but i wouldn't know more than that .
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[*] posted on 5-30-2015 at 03:48 PM


Hi Jody , i think the best thing i can do now is to actually post a photo of the way he holds it , i've got a lesson with him tomorrow afternoon , i can promise a photo , a photo can elaborate much more than anything my vocab allows me to write :)
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[*] posted on 6-13-2016 at 01:57 AM


Hello everybody!

This is my first post on this board, and since I'm a newbie on oud I'm surely curious about different ways holding the risha. But as it looks to me there are no photos any more. Could someone please repost them?

Regards from Germany!

Klaus
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[*] posted on 6-13-2016 at 02:52 AM


Hi,

and welcome to the forums !

Here is a short video from another master, Adel Salameh, that I took during a memorable masterclass in my house...

I hope it helps !

Dan



Attachment: rishademo_adel.avi (452kB)
This file has been downloaded 157 times

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majnuunNavid
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[*] posted on 6-13-2016 at 07:57 PM


How do you open this file?



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[*] posted on 6-13-2016 at 10:58 PM


This is just an ordinary .avi format... I changed the name of the file it may helps.


Dan
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[*] posted on 6-25-2016 at 08:45 PM


Brian, looks like your updated pics are wiped out again...:(



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[*] posted on 7-3-2016 at 05:25 AM


I've tried several different types of Risha and even bought some blanks and shaped them. When I hit the third string (mainly), I get a very unmusical slap. I've changed the angles and experimented but it's still 'slap, slap, slap'. What could I be doing wrong?
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