Ariel
Oud Admirer
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Registered: 6-13-2007
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Mood: happy
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Help with maqam question ( "sayr")
Hi !
Today I was trying to explain a question to my oud teacher but I could not manage to make him understand my question.
I read that a maqam is more than just the scale. There are some rules called "sayr" which helps maqams have a certain personality.
This is what I read in a site called maqamworld.com: " Each maqam includes rules that define its melodic development (or sayr in Arabic). These rules
describe which notes should be emphasized, how often, and in what order. This means that two maqamat that have the same tonal intervals but where one
is a transposed version of the other may be played differently (e.g. maqamat Kurd and Hijaz Kar Kurd, or maqamat Nahawand and Farahfaza)."
I wanted to ask my teacher which were the sayr-rules for each maqam ( rast, nahawand, ayam, etc), but my oud teacher, from Irak, did not understand
when I tried to say "sayr".
I would appreciate if anyone in the forum could send me text in arabic and/or english about "sayr", these rules that help a maqam have some kind of
melodic signature.
Thanks,
Ariel//
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Jason
Oud Junkie
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I'm probably wrong but I think they call it sayr in Turkey... I'm not sure of the equivalent in Arabic
I don't think there are really specific rules for each maqam that are always followed. There are certain ways the masters usually developed specific
maqams but it seems like every oudist does things a little differently. It may be easier to learn a few taqasim from your favorite players to see how
they developed the maqams. This is something I struggle with as well
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Cyberquills
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 10-12-2006
Location: Western Australia
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Mood: resonant
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Hi Ariel
I'm in the same sorta boat as Jason. Listen to your favs as Jason suggests, and read the modulation section on maqamworld.com. They've got a section
of Sinbati taqsim broken down into parts on their site that will help you understand one way of creating a taqsim. Then experiment!! THAT is
incredibly enjoyable.
I dunno about everyone else but for me, taqsim is the most enjoyable aspect of playing the oud. Working the maqam, coming up with new creations is
just so very satisfying and sometimes quite surprising.
CQ
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Ibn_Rushd
Oud Lover
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Ariel,
The word 'Sayr' (سير in arabic means 'walking'. Knowing all the
notes in a Maqam is not enough to be able to improvise on it the traditional way or the same way our ancestors did. Every maqam has a certain feel or
mood attached to it. In the case of Nahawand and Farahfaza, both have the same exact notes, except one is a transposed version of the other, yet
Nahawand has a different mood than Farahafza. There is no way you can learn these moods of feels from a book. You have to listen to old experienced
traditional players over and over. Typically these things are passed down from teacher to student. To make it simple, when you play a certain maqams,
you have to get in the mood of that maqam. Like in the case of Saba, you have to think sad as you improvise.
To give you another example, the Kurd maqam is exactly the western Phrygian mode used a lot in Flamenco. Yet a young guitarist from southern Spain
sounds totally different from an old Oudist playing the same notes in Damascus. I hope this makes sense.
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Benjamin
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Location: Paris, France
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Wow the question about sayr emcompasses the whole question about maqamat...
And I wanted to share something about that specifically. I know this will sound crazy and strange, and that is why I feel ashamed to reveal this
terrible secret for years, but now it's time to tell it: saba makes me happy.. Yes indeed Saba, the purported sad and melancolic maqam. Am I healthy
doctor? Or do I have to go to the mental home? And I even enjoy playing it in a "light" and energic way, but I ensure that nobody is in the area so
that nobody will know I dared to "change" the maqam mood. I know I may be the only one. Or maybe this hapiness is what we call the Tarab, and that
such sadness is a sort of happiness that is so strong it takes you away and bring you feelings that only oriental music can bring you, especially
oud..
What do you think guys about it? If nobody doesn't want to talk to me anymore I'll understand anyway..
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Masel
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 6-18-2006
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Hey Ariel, where do you live? Anyway, I'm still learning myself but like people said, each maqam has it's own mood, it's own melodic development,
slightly differnt choices you would make in the rhythms, ornamentations etc. My teacher even compares them to body parts and the sefirot of the kabala
sometimes. It's very important to find a teacher who knows these things because sadly alot of the modern players partly overlook (and sometimes
completely ignore) this alltoghether. However I mentioned the word sayr to my teacher once and I don't think he knew the word but he certainly knows
everything there is to know and more about the maqams, so so it doesn't mean your teacher doesn't know these things either.
I'm really not an authority to answer but just for the example's sake, my teacher describes bayat as the maqam of the earth, the stomach, the common
people, the maqam of everyday life (most wedding songs are in bayat for example), whereis rast is the head, pointing up into the sky, more
straightforward and concise, hijaz is the maqam of the heart, sadness, etc., nahawand he compares to quiet water, a man sitting near a small stream in
the woods. It's a really superficial answer and really you need a teacher to explain things his way, and to listen to lots of the old music to
understand the feel each maqam has.
Good luck!
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hakeem.ram
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hi masel!
interesting analogy your teacher makes. I can't see a better way to describe the nahawand than the way youre teacher described it.
I was initially told that nahawand might be a bit more on the sappy and sadder note as it is similiar to the western minor chord progression, but it
never invoked that kind of feeling to me. Hmmm it is more of a feeling of peace and tranquility.
As for hijaz, i feel more towards the mystic world of stuff. Hmmm something like being in the middle of the desert with almost nothing, feeling of
lost and yet there are lots of treasures to be found.
For bayat, I feel that it is a maqam that opens the doors to many things. Similar to the one being the earth or the stomach which is the basis of many
things. To walk in one needs to open the door and the door is bayati. Well at least many Qari would use that as the opening to their tilawah.
I am never formally trained hence i may be wrong. But i find this thread really interesting.
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