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Boral
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rebab
Hello,
Sorry, this is an oud forum but I know that there are some builders here so I would like to ask some advice.
Has anyone ever buid one?
I have some knowledge in guitar making and now I would like to build a rebab (Kabak kemance, spike fiddle).
I have some doubts about a few points :
1. Hoe to glue the goat skin to the gourd
2. strings. What kind; what gauge ?
Thanks in advance
Boral
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adamgood
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Like this? used often in Turkish sufi music?
http://www.turkmusikisi.com/calgilar/rebab/rebab.htm
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Boral
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Adam,
thank you for your reply.
Yes, that is the one; like this one too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpo9vLKVIuo
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Reid
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attaching goat skin
cut the top 1/3 of the gourd off
wet the goatskin
spread thin layer of white glue (i use tacky glue) around the edge of the gourd.
stretch the goatskin across, then insert a tack or small nail.
using pliers, stretch the goatskin and insert another tack, opposite from the one you just put in.
continue to do this all the way around.
if the skin is not tight enough when it dries, wet it again and let it dry.
hope this helps! im sure there are other methods but this is just what i do.
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adamgood
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Ah I checked the video, I don't know what for an instrument that is, maybe just a modern version of the sufi kinda thing?
Reid describes using tacks after the glue, you can see in the video he just has the skin glued on. the kind I'm used to seeing has tacks.
also, typically the strings are made of horse hairs bunched up together, i believe I heard someone say 80 individual horse hairs is used to make one
string but i can't verify that.
notice also in the video that his strings are not of horse hairs. maybe metal or something.
so, kabak kemene? what does "kabak" mean?
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Boral
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Reid
cut the top 1/3 of the gourd off
wet the goatskin
spread thin layer of white glue (i use tacky glue) around the edge of the gourd.
stretch the goatskin across, then insert a tack or small nail.
using pliers, stretch the goatskin and insert another tack, opposite from the one you just put in.
continue to do this all the way around.
if the skin is not tight enough when it dries, wet it again and let it dry.
hope this helps! im sure there are other methods but this is just what i do. |
Hi Reid,
Indeed thank you very much for your help.
English it is not my native language so sometimes there maybe some misundestanding; About the glue: I supose the normal white glue for wood would be
OK.
About your method for streching (or other methods) ; does it not create wrinkles? how can you solve this?
Once again ...Thank you
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Boral
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| Quote: | Originally posted by adamgood
notice also in the video that his strings are not of horse hairs. maybe metal or something.
so, kabak kemene? what does "kabak" mean? |
Adam,
Yes, these are other type of strings. Anyone knows?
I don't speak or read Turkish but I think Kemane means all types of foddles. Kabak I supose is the turkish name for Rabab.
I am sure others will clarify this.
Cheers
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adamgood
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Ah I could have just looked it up in my dictionary, sorry. one of the definitions for kabak is "pumpkin" so that must refer to the gourd. Yes, Kemene
refers to types of fiddles. Keman is violin in turkish.
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Boral
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Wow, pumpkin fiddle  cool name
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Peyman
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Hey Boral, I built a kabak kemane last year. I used information on making gourd banjos, check david hyatt's website for alternative ways to attach the
skin.
Also some of these kemanes use synthetic heads. You should try to find very a very thin skin top. Thicker stuff doesn't sound right with metal
strings.
I used goat skin with tacs and glue to hold the skin like Reid said. Also used guitar tuners for pegs and a metalic threaded rod with nuts and washers
for spike and a brass sheet for string holder. I hardened the gourd on the inside with tung oil. The important thing to remember is that string
tension shouldn't be on the gourd itself except on the bride and the neck. Otherwise the gourd will break. It should be spread on the neck and the
spike which runs into the neck.
The rebabs are different. They are usually longer, with coconut or wooden soundboxes. They are turned on a lathe. They usually use gut strings or
horse hair for the first string as adam said. Sometimes they have frets as well.
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Boral
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Peyman,
thank you
http://www.sazonlineshop.net/Bilder/KabakKemane/Kemane2.JPG
I have seen most of the bridge s very close to one edege of the gourd. Don't you think it is enough for holding the pressure of the strings? Does it
needs to be supported by the spyke underneath?
Another question: Why not the bridg at the other end?
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Boral
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Hi again,
Peyman,
another one:
http://elderly.com/images/vintage/200U/200U-1204_front-detail-2.jpg
almost at the edge.
What strings have you utilized? Does it need a sound post?
What is the measurement of yours between bridge and nut?
thank you
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Peyman
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Boral, I am not sure what you mean. The strings shouldn't touch the gourd as they go over the bridge. After a while the tension can break or deform
the gourd. The bridge is put that way to allow for easier bowing. If you put the bridge in the middle, you can't bow it, you'll have no space on the
sides to bow 1st and 4th strings. You'll have to get a taller bridge with more tension on the skin, raising the action etc. The spike is there as a
pivot and string holder, nothing to do with the bridge.
I used violin strings. You can use electric guitar strings as well. The scale length is 31 cm, Persian Kamancheh string length. You don't need a sound
post. You can try it though, and let me know if it works out well.
You should also radius the fingerboard similar to a violin, if you're not turning the neck on a lathe.
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Boral
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Peyman,
I checked Hyatt's websit. loaded with useful information.
Thank you.
I thought that the bridge near the edge had to do with to much pressure from the strings (if you put it in the middle the skin it would bend to much)
in your opinion it is just to make it easy to bow. I will try that . I would like to make something bigger, like the size of a classical guitar neck.
Yes, I have to radius th fingerborad cause I don't have a lathe. I am not sure about 3 or 4 strings.
It will be just my first experiment.
In the future I would like to try a yayli tanbur. I don't know if it works with a gourd. Beautiful sound!!!:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3_9F-ROG8c4
I will keep posting the results. I have not yet gathered all the material.
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Peyman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Boral
I thought that the bridge near the edge had to do with to much pressure from the strings (if you put it in the middle the skin it would bend to much)
in your opinion it is just to make it easy to bow. |
That's part of it but the rebabs usually have their bridges in the middle; it might have to do with having 3 strings. You could come up with a lot of
solutions for the problem (you could angle the neck like a cello, or use a wider flatter bridge) but I think the traditional way gives you the best
results.
I also think that gourds aren't the best choice for instruments. I have 2 gourd kemans (one I made, and one I bought) and none comes close to a wooden
back kamancheh in terms of sound and tone. But it's a good start. Peter Biffin used gourds to experiment as well.
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Beas.One
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I just thought I would share a picture of my Persian kamancheh with the forums since similar instruments were being discussed. 
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Boral
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Hi Beas,
The one you play looks like it is made of wood. Nice picture!
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Beas.One
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Boral,
Yes it is wood. The "gourd" is one carved piece of what I believe is mulberry. Thanks.
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oudmaker
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Hello Boral
There are few different type of rebabs. Some type used in folk music called (Kabak kemane) Usually belly is made of shell of water squash. Carved
wooden belly used mostly in Persia and called (Kemangeh or Kemanche)
I made and am playing classical Rebab. There was no example of it in Turkey except in museums. There were three person playing it but their vesion of
rebab was not classic. They used violin or viola strings.
Classic rebab is made of coconut shell. Early times it had two strings made of horse hair. The one I made has coconut shell but 3 strings one of them
is (the main string on which the melody is played) horse hair. The other two have mostly "enin in Turkish" sympathetic function. The middle string is
used for lower notes of some makams which do not have to much of melody in the compositions.
Never the less Rebab is a much less capeble to play sofisticated modern music and replaced by violin in last two centuries in Turkey.
I have some pictures of my rebab. I will send you if you send me a U2U and give me your email address. I do not want to take advantage of Mike`s forum
further.
Regards
Dincer
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adamgood
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Dincer, your rebab was the first one i had ever seen in person, it's beautiful. The sound of those little instruments amazes me, sounding something
like yaylı tanbur which is what, twice the size?
adam
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Peyman
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It's nice to hear from Dincer usta again. I saw pictures of that beautiful rebab but didn't know you played it.
Boral here is a documetary on the Turkish classical rebab (by TRT) that you can download. They also show how it's made (well, sort of): http://dosyalar.semazen.net/dergah_video/rebab.wmv
Mehmet Refiki Kaya is the person that came up with the long neck, fretted rebab. He also has an album...
If you're interested in building the persian kamancheh, give me your email. There is an unpublished book, but I can get you in touch with the author.
It's more of a technical book.
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Boral
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Hi,
Dincer, Peyman, and all
Thank you for your help and the useful information
I have sent U2U to you. I also don'nt want to take advantage of Mike's forum
Cheers
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stos
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I felt in love with the rebab ( the one with three strings and coconut shell body)
and because I didn t had any money to buy one in istanbul, I decided to build one
my coconut shell is ready sanded and with a nice (natural made) face of a kind of devil (hum.. I ll show you a picture)
I found for the neck one piece of wood wich is normally made for fitting an axe 
Before I left from istanbul I talked a lot with the luthier of rebab that you can see in the TRT documentary and he explained me some tips to build
one
for example to glue the goat skin on the coconut , and that is stays flat when it is drying,
--> you put the skin of the coconut with the glue and then you put the coconut inside a panty and then you make a knot
hum.. I dont know if its clear..
I can post some pictures if it interrest somebody
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Boral
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Please post some pictures.
My rebab project is on stand-by . I am about to begin an oud; I will try to finish the rebab along with the oud.
I can pot some pictures of what I have done so far. I don't know how to post them. Can someone please help?
thank you
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stos
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here are some photos
im now working on the peg box
and only after i will glue the skin
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