Microber
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Maqam Hisar. What is it ?
I listened to two wonderful compositions of the Turkish Itri (1640-1712). Both pieces are in maqam HISAR.
They are on the cd "Miras Heritage" of Senol Filiz and Birol Yayla.
It is available here
And you can listen to some samples as the Hisar Beste.
Any information about this Maqam ?
Any sheet music ?
Thanks
Robert
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Microber
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About ITRI
Could a kind Turkish friend of the forum translate this?
Is it a book or a cd or both ?
Thanks
Robert
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dubai244
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Hi Microber,
"Hisar Beste" is the name of the music piece. It is not Magam. The "Hisar Beste" is
a combinations between maqams, Mainly, Bayati & Hijaz.
By the way, the hole CD is music pieces, not Maqams.
Thanks
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adamgood
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Um, just to clarify, "Hisar" is indeed its own makam (page 323 of the Ismail Hakkı Özkan book). So "Hisar Beste" would imply a piece in "Beste"
form composed in makam Hisar.
I've never really checked out the makam before but have heard the Itri piece several times, i have a recording. If I look at the piece, here's what I
can gather from makam Hisar...hopefully someone else can give us better insight.
1. It seems to start around the pitch Hüseyni or "Mi"
2. at first it can use Re diyez and Sol diyez. so that makes zirgule around Mi. Kind of interesting, that part reminds me of the beginning of makam
Suzidil. same kind of intervals.
3. then it seems to lose the Re diyez and end like uşşak on dügah.
Soooo that's about what I pick up from it. I think the (beginning of) suzidil similarities are interesting and worth taking note of.
adam
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Microber
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Thanks for your answers.
I was surprised by the your answer Dubai. I have found on the cd of Samir Tahar called 'Dreams : ud et voix', the track 5 is called 'Maqam Hissar'.
Robert
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adamgood
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by the way Robert, do you have the notation for the Itri piece? If not I can email it to you with some other rep. Just send me a u2u with your
email.
adam
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Microber
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Oh yes you can send it to me.
Do you have both pieces : Hisar Beste and Hisar Saz semai.
The semai is very wonderful... and difficult to understand without the sheet.
I send a u2u
Robert
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dubai244
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Hi Microber,
I am sorry i was wrong about my answer. Thanks for the guys who sent the
right information about Maqam "Hissar".
Any body has the sheet, so all of us can learn how this maqam can be played?
Thanks
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adamgood
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Dubai, anyone is welcome to u2u me their email address, I'll just pack up some stuff and send it.
Honestly it doesn't seem to be a very common makam on its own, interesting to check out though. Probably a lot of repertoire was lost.
Much more common is the makam "Hisar Buselik", there's way more repertoire available. Doesn't take makam rocket science to figure out what that
compound makam is made up of.
adam
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Reda Aouad
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Hi all..
This is maqam Hissar:
Re, Mi half-flat, Fa, Sol#, La, Sib, Do, Re
D, E half-flat, F, G#, A, Bb, C, D.
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JT
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Hey Guys,
In Arabic music Hisar is the name for G#. Maqam Hisar is D, E, F, G#, A, Bb, C#, D
It belongs to the Nikriz Maqam Family, its tonic is D. It can be seen as transposition of the scale Nawa Athar (on C) which is
C, D, Eb, F#, G, Ab, B, C
All the best,
JT
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Reda Aouad
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Hello JT.
Attached is page 24 of the book "Nazaryyat AL Mousiqa Al Sharq Arabyya" "نظريات
الموسيقى الشرق-عربية", the arabic music
theory book written by Dr. Walid Gholmyeh, head of the Lebanese National Superior Music Conservatory. It shows on the bottom of the page maqam Hisar
(the last one), which is true to be belonging to the Nikriz family as you said, but has E half flat and C natural.
Reda.
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JT
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Hello Reda,
This is definitely a mistake. That scale at the bottom is Seba. Furthermore, to belong to the Nikriz family it must have the lower jins (first 3 or 4
notes) of Nikriz. If this wasnt the case, then according to this book it would belong to the Seba family. What is written here is definitely Seba.
Hisar is definitely Nawa Athar from D and not what is written in this book. It is a simple error...
Cheers,
JT
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katakofka
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JT
In Arabic music Hisar is the name for G#. Maqam Hisar is D, E, F, G#, A, Bb, C#, D
JT |
This is right JT but as it's written on the sheet it's not seba, otherwise you would have F# and not G#.
Reda the sheet you posted has a mistake. C should be C# and not C to be named as said "7ijaaz". On the sheet you posted add a # on the C and you will
have the hisaar maqam. It's a simple mistake as said
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Reda Aouad
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JT..
Saba has Gb and not G#. And katakofka ur right.. the upper tetrachord (jins) should have C# for it to be a Hijaz tetrachord. I have made some more
research online (links below) and what I found is that this maqam can have any of the forms so far stated. On the way up, it definitely starts like JT
said, then on the way down it may include changes to E half flat and maybe other notes.
Another note.. it's the maqam belongs to the nikriz family, but it's a maqam "SIMILAR" (moutashebih "متشابه") to
nikriz.. which means (as defined by the book) that the lower tetrachord (jins) is slightly modified from the original one to obtain a "similar" maqam,
the modification being E half flat.
Now im really puzzled.. 
http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamat/nawa-athar.html
http://alsiadi.com/gallery3.htm
http://www.oud.eclipse.co.uk/hisar.html
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JT
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Hey Guys,
There you go I made the simple mistake about Seba, I nice throw off . Never the
less, if it starts like this it would belong to the Bayatti family which it doesnt, to change one note and call it "similar" is dangerous as then this
would make almost every Maqam however different the family "similar" to the other.
I was taught Hisar was Nawa Athar on D and it makes sense...
Thanks for the discussion...Happy theory!
JT
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Danielo
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I had a look at Erlanger's book, Maqam Hisar is presented there as follows:
In the ascending form the lower jins is Hisar on D, i,e, D E F G# A, and the upper jins Hijazi on A
In the descending form the lower jins is either Hisar on D or Bayati on D
In the upper register the lower jins is Busalik on D and the upper jins Busalik on G both ascending and descending
I hope it helps!
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Reda Aouad
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JT.. one more thing.. bayati on D is D E half flat F G and not G#, so the lower jins couldn't be bayati. And by similar the book means that if u have
a main maqam, by changing a note in the lower jins u may result in a similar maqam belonging to the same family
Danielo.. Thanks for the info but if in the descending form it's bayati on D,
then it would be G natural instead of G#.. and in the upper register it's a G natural and C natural since it's buselik on both D and G..
Well.. thanks for the discussion !
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JT
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Hello Reda,
Jins applies to the first three, four or five notes of a maqam. Trichords, Tetrachords and Pentachords....So here the G# becomes irrelivant.
All the best,
JT
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Reda Aouad
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Oh ok JT ur referring to the first trichord.. I know that but I had only tetrachords in mind throughout the discussion.
Thanks again.
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JT
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Hey Reda,
All cool man. http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamat/nawa-athar.html
All the best,
JT
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Reda Aouad
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yeah I saw it.. I previously included it in one of my posts.. as well as other sources..
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Microber
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Hisar again
Hi everybody,
I am coming back on the subject more than a year later.
I have read all the topic... and I'm completely lost!
All what is said don't match (for me) with what I hear in the famous Hisar Agir Semai of Itri.
The notes I find in the tune are :
Mi - Fa - Sol# - La - Si - Do - Ré - Mi
E - F - G# - A - B - C - D - E
With some 'accidendal' si half bémol and Ré#.
For me it is clear that the main-starting note is Mi.
Am I right ?
The notes I mention above look like Hijaz starting from Mi.
The solution of Nawa Athar from Ré don't match for me.
1 : it start from Ré. I don't hear it in the semai.
2 : there is no Sib in the tune
3 : there is no Do# in the tune
Any new comment ?
Robert
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David.B
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Hi Rober,
I can't hear what you're talking about (I can't use my speakers) but I can add two more sources.
Arab Music Theory in the Modern Period p.843:
"Nawa Athar Fasilah
Hisar D E F G# A Bb c# d"
A treatise on Arabic music chiefly from a work by Mikhâil Meshâkah of Damascus p.189:
"15. Hisâr-bûselîk. It is Huseiny (A), Hîsâr (Ab) repeated, then Muhaiyar (d), Shahnâz (c#), Auj (B-b-), Huseiny (A), Hîsâr (Ab), Jehârgâh
(F), Bûselîk (E), Dûgâh (D). Thus this tune is highly irregular, for in it three notes, viz., Sîgâh (E-b-), Nawa (G), and Mâhûr (B) are
altered, and the quarters Bûselîk (E), Hîsâr (Ab) and shanhâz (c#) are used in their places. I have known some musicians transpose it to
`Arak(BB-b-), in order to avoid this irregularity ; in which case they raise Rest (C) a quarter to Nim-zergelâh (C=/=), and lower Dugâh (D) a
quarter to Tek-zergelâh (D-b-), thus preserving the same intervals, and making `Arak (BB-b-) the key note.
16. Hisâr. It is like the preceding, except that Sîgâh is retained, and Bûselîk is not used."
In our modern language:
D E-b- F Ab(G#) A B-b- c# d
or
BB-b- BB D-b- E=/= F=/= G A=/= B-b-
or
E-b- F G-b- A=/= B=/= c d=/= e-b-
Also I don't understand what you wrote as maqam Hisar.
At last he word "Hisar" means "Ab", this note is determinant to label this maqam of which finalis is Dûgâh (D). And what I know is only about Arab
music...
PS
I hope I did write well and there is no mistake.
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David.B
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Robert Sorry to dig out this thread without bringing you an answer (Arab vs Turkish music), but I wanted to correct what I wrote:
I don't remember why I wrote Hîsâr = Ab instead of G#, nevertheless it's still understandable ...
However I wrote "Mâhûr (B)", of course it's not B but C.
I've just wrote Hisâr bûsalîk and Al-hisâr, from what I can hear on "Music from Lebanon and the Levant of the Arab Renaissance" by the Ensemble of Classical Arab Music of the
Antonine University.
Another source that identifies the use of maqam (nawā āthār or) ḥiṣār in "Lamma bada yatathanna" performed by Sheikh
Sayyid al-Safti (04:05) -> http://www.amar-foundation.org/004-lamma-bada-yatathanna/
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