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ozeri
Oud Lover
Posts: 18
Registered: 6-9-2007
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sukar neck adjustment screw
I have done a lot of searching on the forum about this,however I am not quite clear about it.
Is this "screw thingy" (for lack of a better name) for an actual truss rod or something other....as in a simple way of attaching the neck itself.
Either way,I am under the impression that one can indeed adjust the neck angle with it. Is my conclusion an erroneous one?
If I can adjust it , can someone tell me the correct procedure.
- Is it best to loosen tension on the strings (as I assume)?
- Which way does the angle change when turned clockwise or
counter clockwise?
- What is the actual range of adjustment?
...not that much I would imagine
I ask all this because the action on my oud is a little high where the neck and body meet.
I am using Aquila strings from Jameel....excellent!
I wonder if I will need to make a new nut to achieve ideal action.
Thanks to all.
Ozeri
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
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I think all it is is a neck to body attachment system.
I really doubt that there is a truss rod in there.
But try it anyway. If you notice that when you make it tighter the action goes down then do that. ( you will still need to remove the collet and
soften the glue inside the neck joint.)
None the less it makes it way easy to correct the action.
From what I know you have to remove the little collet where the neck and body meet.
You will have to take the strings off at the peg side of things. otherwise you wont be able to get your hand in the sound hole to undo the screw.
You will need to use warm water to loosen the glue around the neck and body. Once it comes loose I would check if the neck to body angle is low
enough.
If it has always been high then chances are that the angle at which the neck and body meet is not low enough. in this case you need to sand down the
bottom of the neck as instructed in this page by dr oud.
http://www.droud.com/neck_re-set.htm
if you can without sanding anything place the neck at the perfect angle then go ahead and re glue it in that angle and find a way to keep the screw at
that angle.
I would put small wood shims on one side of the screw if there is space in the hole.
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ozeri
Oud Lover
Posts: 18
Registered: 6-9-2007
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Hey thanks Samir I appreciate this information.
I have options to think about now.
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journeyman
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 12-28-2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Has anyone actually adjusted the neck angle or action on Sukar oud using the mechanism at the base of the neck inside the oud? If so, could you give
detailed instructions? Thanks.
Roy
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 11-19-2007
Location: Newcastle upon tyne. UK
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I have a fine Sukar oud. The screw is a wing nut which I have adjusted to suit my prefered action. Tighten to lower the action. Loosen to higher the
action. It is not a truss rod. Truss rods do not adjust action anyway, they prevent warping. The Sukar mechanism is similar to that which can be found
in leg or caster arrangements found in beds, tables and settees. A threaded rod which extends from within the neck, through the neck block and into
the body space is housed in an insert within the neck. The neck is not glued to the instrument. The wing nut allows the string tension to pull the
neck to an action of your choosing. If you prefer a higher action do not be alarmed by the appearance of a small gap at the back of the neck joint
because the mechanism is very secure and this gap is normal if you require a higher tilt. It is an excellent device and if you search this forum for
problems with high action you will wonder why makers do not fit this as standard. You will only need to loosen the strings enough to get your hand in
to turn the nut. You need not fear if the nut is completely loose there is no danger of the neck coming off. A completely loose wing nut gives you the
highest action possible. As soon as the nut is only just hand tight a lower action is set. From there you can tighten a little at a time until you
have your perfect action. Wonderful, I assure you. Regards C.
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journeyman
Oud Junkie
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Thanks Charlie Oud. I'll try this tomorrow and post again.
Roy
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journeyman
Oud Junkie
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Well I tried loosening the wing nut on my Sukar oud to bring the action up a little and it worked just fine. At first nothing seemed to change but I
decided to leave it for the day. When I came home later the action was just a little higher and the buzzing that I was getting near the nut was gone.
This is my first Sukar and so far I'm really loving it. It has the sound I have been looking for and the workmanship is great. It is model #11. I have
seen other Sukar ouds and the finish work was a bit rough, but this one is really nice. Perhaps the pricing reflects the materials used and the time
invested in construction. True, the design features of the top might not be the most pleasing,, but I've already gotten used to the open oval sound
holes and I'm just thrilled with the way it sounds and feels, and...it was purchased used for a very affordable price. But I digress, and wanted to
say that the instructions that Charlie Oud posted for the Sukar neck adjustment seem to be correct. Thanks.
Roy
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
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Location: Newcastle upon tyne. UK
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Hey Roy, Im glad you are enjoying your Sukar. I know you are a fine player (remember?, you sent me a sound clip a while back). I too warm to Sukar's
open sound , it seems to give a lot to the tone, the body becomes fully utilised as a sound chamber. Yeah, Sukar does'nt go for the "decorative"
stuff, but his ouds have a simple raw beauty, sonority and soul. Shehata, I believe also maintains these qualities. Best. C
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Christian1095
Oud Junkie
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I've also done the neck action thing on both my Sukar ouds...
Charlie, I'm right there with you about the quality and tone.... I love my oud..
Chris Walters
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
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Thats great Chris, I wish Sukar spoke/read English, I'm sure he would appreciate our comments. C
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samzayed
Oud Junkie
Posts: 485
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Location: Chicago, IL
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Can anyone advice how much turning is needed? For example, should I turn 1/4 at a time, then check the action? Or, does it require more turning?
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Reda Aouad
Oud Junkie
Posts: 553
Registered: 1-2-2009
Location: Lebanon
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Hi Guys.
I have the same problem.. a very high action which is unpleasant. This picture is taken from inside my oud. Is this screw the one you are talking
about? I thought it would change the angle of the neck.. but I was afraid of turning it. Im sure it doesn't turn by hand. Do I need a special driver?
There is not much room for any driver to turn inside..
I would really appreciate it if anyone could help me since Im suffering from the high action.
Thanks 
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Reda Aouad
Oud Junkie
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I forgot the picture.. here it is..
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
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Hi Reda, Yes thats it. Mine is a wing nut which is easier to turn by hand. With yours you may need to use a spanner or a pair of pliers or grips if it
wont turn by hand. Do not be afraid. Make sure you engage on the nut firmly and take care not to come into contact with the underside of the sound
board. Then turn it clockwise about a quarter to a half turn. Then check the action. Repeat this process until the action is how you like it. C.
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Reda Aouad
Oud Junkie
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Thanks That's great news.. I will definitely try it in the coming days. But just
a small question.. to engage on the nut firmly you mean to push the neck backwards by pressing on the nut?
Thanks again
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Reda Aouad
Oud Junkie
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One more thing.. I have an extended ebony fingerboard. Is it safe to adjust the neck? Will it bend with it without cracking or something?
And by the way.. My Oud is not a Sukkar one.. It's Georges Bitar (Lebanon). You can see in the picture the high action and why Im having a hard time
playing it..
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
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Location: Newcastle upon tyne. UK
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STOP !!!. Sorry reda, I assumed you were talking about a Sukar oud ( I wondered why the nut was different to mine). Ignore my instruction for now as I
do not know if it is correct for your oud. You could try mailing the maker or Richard Hankey (Dr Oud on the forum, contact details on members list I
think). He is very helpful and may advise you. If it is the same by engaging firmly I mean the grip of any tool on the nut so it does not slip off the
nut as you turn it. C
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Reda Aouad
Oud Junkie
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Just when I was getting some hope to fix it :S
I'll try to contact him and give him the link for this thread..
Thanks anyway..
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
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Keep the hope, It maybe the same mechanism as Sukar uses, if so, you can do as I said. In fact I cannot think of any other reason for a maker to put a
nut there. I just wanted to avoid wrongly advising you. C
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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I am not familiar with Georges Bitar's purpose for the nut at the end of the neck. It may be simply the means to hold the neck in place, not
necessarily an adjustment. It would be best if you ask the maker if you can, otherwise try to loosen the nut first (counterclockwise) and notice the
result. You must use a socket wrench to get a secure grip on the nut and control the turn precisely to avoid damaging the face around the sound hole.
I would suggest doing it with the strings on to see if there is a change in the action. If no change is noticeable, it is an attachment screw, not an
adjustment. In this case you need to loosen the neck and insert a thin shim to correct the angle. You mentioned that the fingerboard is extended - is
there a seam at the neck/body joint? If so the shim would work fine. If not, the fingerboard should be removed before loosening the nut, then replaced
after. A slight angle at the neck joint should not be a problem. The ideal height at the neck joint is 3-5mm.
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samzayed
Oud Junkie
Posts: 485
Registered: 11-1-2003
Location: Chicago, IL
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Charlie Oud/Journeyman (or anyone one else who is familiar with the Sukar adjustable action)
I recently got my hands on a Sukar oud, and my action is a little higher than desired. I am planning on tightening the nut inside the bowl. I was
wondering is there a point where it can be too tight causing damage to the oud? For example, with a truss rod, you can damage the neck if you over
tighten the screw... I know this is not a truss rod, but I was wondering if there is also a point where it can cause damage...
Many thanks...
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
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Location: Newcastle upon tyne. UK
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Hi Samzayed,
I'm unsure if the nut would damage the oud if it were very tight, my guess is that it would'nt but I would'nt recommend trying. "Hand tight" to the
point where it is difficult tighten any further will be fine, lets say, so it can still be loosened without requiring a strong person or a tool. Ive
only my own Sukar to go by, so Im no expert but my action lowered easily without requiring excessive tightening. As soon as the nut was firm to the
turn, the action lowered considerably with barely a half turn more. Go easy and check action after each quarter turn, eighth turn as you get near the
action you want, best done with strings on and at pitch if you can get your hand in and out. If not loosen only a course or two to enable this. Hope
you have the same out come as me. Good luck. Charlie.
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samzayed
Oud Junkie
Posts: 485
Registered: 11-1-2003
Location: Chicago, IL
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Thanks! This helps a lot!!
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Reda Aouad
Oud Junkie
Posts: 553
Registered: 1-2-2009
Location: Lebanon
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Dr. Oud!!! I must say you are a life saver
Well.. I didn't know what the nut inside the oud was for.. but I said let me give it a try. I used a socket wrench with a long extension and turned it
counter-clockwise at first and the action got a little bit higher. So I turned it clockwise.. and it took quite some force to do it.. and kept on
turning in small increments until I got a very low action.. Although I was very afraid of damaging the oud. But I can tell by now that it is much much
much better as I used to have a very high action.. Im much more comfortable now and my playing is a lot easier, faster and smoother.
I really appreciate it Dr. Oud Thank you very much for the help..
| Quote: | | I am not familiar with Georges Bitar's purpose for the nut at the end of the neck. It may be simply the means to hold the neck in place, not
necessarily an adjustment. It would be best if you ask the maker if you can, otherwise try to loosen the nut first (counterclockwise) and notice the
result. You must use a socket wrench to get a secure grip on the nut and control the turn precisely to avoid damaging the face around the sound hole.
I would suggest doing it with the strings on to see if there is a change in the action. If no change is noticeable, it is an attachment screw, not an
adjustment. In this case you need to loosen the neck and insert a thin shim to correct the angle. You mentioned that the fingerboard is extended - is
there a seam at the neck/body joint? If so the shim would work fine. If not, the fingerboard should be removed before loosening the nut, then replaced
after. A slight angle at the neck joint should not be a problem. The ideal height at the neck joint is 3-5mm. |
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Marcus
Oud Junkie
Posts: 446
Registered: 11-26-2008
Location: Stuttgart/ South Germany
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Quote: Originally posted by samzayed  | | Can anyone advice how much turning is needed? For example, should I turn 1/4 at a time, then check the action? Or, does it require more turning?
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Hi fellow oudies 
As I`m getting used to a very low action on my JT signature oud by Veysel Sarikus, I really need to lower the action on my Sukar!!
Can anybody answer this old question,pleeeeease
Cheers
Marcus
Playing the oud is like feeding my soul with peace
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