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Author: Subject: sukar neck adjustment screw
ozeri
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[*] posted on 2-22-2008 at 07:45 AM
sukar neck adjustment screw


I have done a lot of searching on the forum about this,however I am not quite clear about it.
Is this "screw thingy" (for lack of a better name) for an actual truss rod or something other....as in a simple way of attaching the neck itself.
Either way,I am under the impression that one can indeed adjust the neck angle with it. Is my conclusion an erroneous one?
If I can adjust it , can someone tell me the correct procedure.
- Is it best to loosen tension on the strings (as I assume)?
- Which way does the angle change when turned clockwise or
counter clockwise?
- What is the actual range of adjustment?
...not that much I would imagine
I ask all this because the action on my oud is a little high where the neck and body meet.
I am using Aquila strings from Jameel....excellent!
I wonder if I will need to make a new nut to achieve ideal action.
Thanks to all.
Ozeri
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SamirCanada
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[*] posted on 2-22-2008 at 09:46 AM


I think all it is is a neck to body attachment system.
I really doubt that there is a truss rod in there.

But try it anyway. If you notice that when you make it tighter the action goes down then do that. ( you will still need to remove the collet and soften the glue inside the neck joint.)

None the less it makes it way easy to correct the action.
From what I know you have to remove the little collet where the neck and body meet.
You will have to take the strings off at the peg side of things. otherwise you wont be able to get your hand in the sound hole to undo the screw.
You will need to use warm water to loosen the glue around the neck and body. Once it comes loose I would check if the neck to body angle is low enough.
If it has always been high then chances are that the angle at which the neck and body meet is not low enough. in this case you need to sand down the bottom of the neck as instructed in this page by dr oud.
http://www.droud.com/neck_re-set.htm

if you can without sanding anything place the neck at the perfect angle then go ahead and re glue it in that angle and find a way to keep the screw at that angle.
I would put small wood shims on one side of the screw if there is space in the hole.
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ozeri
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[*] posted on 2-24-2008 at 08:51 AM


Hey thanks Samir I appreciate this information.
I have options to think about now.
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[*] posted on 11-19-2008 at 07:35 AM


Has anyone actually adjusted the neck angle or action on Sukar oud using the mechanism at the base of the neck inside the oud? If so, could you give detailed instructions? Thanks.

Roy
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charlie oud
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[*] posted on 11-19-2008 at 02:48 PM


I have a fine Sukar oud. The screw is a wing nut which I have adjusted to suit my prefered action. Tighten to lower the action. Loosen to higher the action. It is not a truss rod. Truss rods do not adjust action anyway, they prevent warping. The Sukar mechanism is similar to that which can be found in leg or caster arrangements found in beds, tables and settees. A threaded rod which extends from within the neck, through the neck block and into the body space is housed in an insert within the neck. The neck is not glued to the instrument. The wing nut allows the string tension to pull the neck to an action of your choosing. If you prefer a higher action do not be alarmed by the appearance of a small gap at the back of the neck joint because the mechanism is very secure and this gap is normal if you require a higher tilt. It is an excellent device and if you search this forum for problems with high action you will wonder why makers do not fit this as standard. You will only need to loosen the strings enough to get your hand in to turn the nut. You need not fear if the nut is completely loose there is no danger of the neck coming off. A completely loose wing nut gives you the highest action possible. As soon as the nut is only just hand tight a lower action is set. From there you can tighten a little at a time until you have your perfect action. Wonderful, I assure you. Regards C.
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[*] posted on 11-19-2008 at 08:28 PM


Thanks Charlie Oud. I'll try this tomorrow and post again.

Roy
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[*] posted on 11-20-2008 at 08:32 PM


Well I tried loosening the wing nut on my Sukar oud to bring the action up a little and it worked just fine. At first nothing seemed to change but I decided to leave it for the day. When I came home later the action was just a little higher and the buzzing that I was getting near the nut was gone. This is my first Sukar and so far I'm really loving it. It has the sound I have been looking for and the workmanship is great. It is model #11. I have seen other Sukar ouds and the finish work was a bit rough, but this one is really nice. Perhaps the pricing reflects the materials used and the time invested in construction. True, the design features of the top might not be the most pleasing,, but I've already gotten used to the open oval sound holes and I'm just thrilled with the way it sounds and feels, and...it was purchased used for a very affordable price. But I digress, and wanted to say that the instructions that Charlie Oud posted for the Sukar neck adjustment seem to be correct. Thanks.

Roy
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charlie oud
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[*] posted on 11-21-2008 at 12:30 AM


Hey Roy, Im glad you are enjoying your Sukar. I know you are a fine player (remember?, you sent me a sound clip a while back). I too warm to Sukar's open sound , it seems to give a lot to the tone, the body becomes fully utilised as a sound chamber. Yeah, Sukar does'nt go for the "decorative" stuff, but his ouds have a simple raw beauty, sonority and soul. Shehata, I believe also maintains these qualities. Best. C
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[*] posted on 11-21-2008 at 07:49 AM


I've also done the neck action thing on both my Sukar ouds...

Charlie, I'm right there with you about the quality and tone.... I love my oud..




Chris Walters
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charlie oud
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[*] posted on 11-21-2008 at 10:04 AM


Thats great Chris, I wish Sukar spoke/read English, I'm sure he would appreciate our comments. C
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[*] posted on 2-14-2009 at 03:38 PM


Can anyone advice how much turning is needed? For example, should I turn 1/4 at a time, then check the action? Or, does it require more turning?
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Reda Aouad
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exclamation.gif posted on 2-14-2009 at 09:40 PM


Hi Guys.

I have the same problem.. a very high action which is unpleasant. This picture is taken from inside my oud. Is this screw the one you are talking about? I thought it would change the angle of the neck.. but I was afraid of turning it. Im sure it doesn't turn by hand. Do I need a special driver? There is not much room for any driver to turn inside..

I would really appreciate it if anyone could help me since Im suffering from the high action.

Thanks :)
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Reda Aouad
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[*] posted on 2-14-2009 at 09:40 PM


I forgot the picture.. here it is..
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charlie oud
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[*] posted on 2-14-2009 at 11:30 PM


Hi Reda, Yes thats it. Mine is a wing nut which is easier to turn by hand. With yours you may need to use a spanner or a pair of pliers or grips if it wont turn by hand. Do not be afraid. Make sure you engage on the nut firmly and take care not to come into contact with the underside of the sound board. Then turn it clockwise about a quarter to a half turn. Then check the action. Repeat this process until the action is how you like it. C.
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[*] posted on 2-14-2009 at 11:42 PM


Thanks :) That's great news.. I will definitely try it in the coming days. But just a small question.. to engage on the nut firmly you mean to push the neck backwards by pressing on the nut?
Thanks again :)
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Reda Aouad
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[*] posted on 2-15-2009 at 12:01 AM


One more thing.. I have an extended ebony fingerboard. Is it safe to adjust the neck? Will it bend with it without cracking or something?

And by the way.. My Oud is not a Sukkar one.. It's Georges Bitar (Lebanon). You can see in the picture the high action and why Im having a hard time playing it..
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charlie oud
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[*] posted on 2-15-2009 at 12:17 AM


STOP !!!. Sorry reda, I assumed you were talking about a Sukar oud ( I wondered why the nut was different to mine). Ignore my instruction for now as I do not know if it is correct for your oud. You could try mailing the maker or Richard Hankey (Dr Oud on the forum, contact details on members list I think). He is very helpful and may advise you. If it is the same by engaging firmly I mean the grip of any tool on the nut so it does not slip off the nut as you turn it. C
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[*] posted on 2-15-2009 at 12:21 AM


Just when I was getting some hope to fix it :S
I'll try to contact him and give him the link for this thread..
Thanks anyway..
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charlie oud
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[*] posted on 2-15-2009 at 12:29 AM


Keep the hope, It maybe the same mechanism as Sukar uses, if so, you can do as I said. In fact I cannot think of any other reason for a maker to put a nut there. I just wanted to avoid wrongly advising you. C
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[*] posted on 2-15-2009 at 02:40 PM


I am not familiar with Georges Bitar's purpose for the nut at the end of the neck. It may be simply the means to hold the neck in place, not necessarily an adjustment. It would be best if you ask the maker if you can, otherwise try to loosen the nut first (counterclockwise) and notice the result. You must use a socket wrench to get a secure grip on the nut and control the turn precisely to avoid damaging the face around the sound hole. I would suggest doing it with the strings on to see if there is a change in the action. If no change is noticeable, it is an attachment screw, not an adjustment. In this case you need to loosen the neck and insert a thin shim to correct the angle. You mentioned that the fingerboard is extended - is there a seam at the neck/body joint? If so the shim would work fine. If not, the fingerboard should be removed before loosening the nut, then replaced after. A slight angle at the neck joint should not be a problem. The ideal height at the neck joint is 3-5mm.



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[*] posted on 2-16-2009 at 08:57 PM


Charlie Oud/Journeyman (or anyone one else who is familiar with the Sukar adjustable action)

I recently got my hands on a Sukar oud, and my action is a little higher than desired. I am planning on tightening the nut inside the bowl. I was wondering is there a point where it can be too tight causing damage to the oud? For example, with a truss rod, you can damage the neck if you over tighten the screw... I know this is not a truss rod, but I was wondering if there is also a point where it can cause damage...

Many thanks...
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charlie oud
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[*] posted on 2-17-2009 at 06:21 AM


Hi Samzayed,

I'm unsure if the nut would damage the oud if it were very tight, my guess is that it would'nt but I would'nt recommend trying. "Hand tight" to the point where it is difficult tighten any further will be fine, lets say, so it can still be loosened without requiring a strong person or a tool. Ive only my own Sukar to go by, so Im no expert but my action lowered easily without requiring excessive tightening. As soon as the nut was firm to the turn, the action lowered considerably with barely a half turn more. Go easy and check action after each quarter turn, eighth turn as you get near the action you want, best done with strings on and at pitch if you can get your hand in and out. If not loosen only a course or two to enable this. Hope you have the same out come as me. Good luck. Charlie.
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[*] posted on 2-17-2009 at 08:25 AM


Thanks! This helps a lot!!
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Reda Aouad
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[*] posted on 2-17-2009 at 09:23 AM


Dr. Oud!!! I must say you are a life saver :)

Well.. I didn't know what the nut inside the oud was for.. but I said let me give it a try. I used a socket wrench with a long extension and turned it counter-clockwise at first and the action got a little bit higher. So I turned it clockwise.. and it took quite some force to do it.. and kept on turning in small increments until I got a very low action.. Although I was very afraid of damaging the oud. But I can tell by now that it is much much much better as I used to have a very high action.. Im much more comfortable now and my playing is a lot easier, faster and smoother.

I really appreciate it Dr. Oud :) Thank you very much for the help..


Quote:
I am not familiar with Georges Bitar's purpose for the nut at the end of the neck. It may be simply the means to hold the neck in place, not necessarily an adjustment. It would be best if you ask the maker if you can, otherwise try to loosen the nut first (counterclockwise) and notice the result. You must use a socket wrench to get a secure grip on the nut and control the turn precisely to avoid damaging the face around the sound hole. I would suggest doing it with the strings on to see if there is a change in the action. If no change is noticeable, it is an attachment screw, not an adjustment. In this case you need to loosen the neck and insert a thin shim to correct the angle. You mentioned that the fingerboard is extended - is there a seam at the neck/body joint? If so the shim would work fine. If not, the fingerboard should be removed before loosening the nut, then replaced after. A slight angle at the neck joint should not be a problem. The ideal height at the neck joint is 3-5mm.
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[*] posted on 6-4-2013 at 04:53 AM


Quote: Originally posted by samzayed  
Can anyone advice how much turning is needed? For example, should I turn 1/4 at a time, then check the action? Or, does it require more turning?


Hi fellow oudies :wavey:

As I`m getting used to a very low action on my JT signature oud by Veysel Sarikus, I really need to lower the action on my Sukar!!

Can anybody answer this old question,pleeeeease:rolleyes:

Cheers

Marcus




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